Building house, need help with HA

[Luvien]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on this forum but I have been reading it for a lot of hours since 2 weeks. In 2 months, I will start building my house and I want some nice home automation features. English is not my first langage, but I will try to be clear as much as possible. I have looked for the 101 wiring guide, but I couldnt find it.

The house has 2 stories, a basement and a garage. Each floor is around 900 square feet.

Basement
Home theater room (TV and audio system)
Family room (maybe a TV)
Utility room (Where all the cable and equipment will go)
Bedroom

1st floor
Kitchen
Dining room
Living room (TV)
Office
Hall with front door

2nd floor
1 master bedroom
2 children bedroom
2 batchroom

Now the harder part .. wich component to buy. I live in Canada, so it's easier to buy from reseller around here. But we don't have much choice.

Controller

I looked for HAI and ELK. My choice will be HAI Omni Pro since the wife want some security in the house. Anyone know a good place to order it in Canada? If not, where is the best internet site to order from in the USA ? I checked Smarthome.

Security

Cameras
I want indoor and outdoor cameras. The choice is not easy. If I go with analog cameras, there is so much choice! But I will need a camera server, like the one from HAI and it's expensive. If I go with IP cameras, there is less choice and they are more expensive. Any suggestion? I really want to have the feeds on my computer and be able to record them.

Motion detector
Sicne I will use the Omni Pro, I want to add security features. Can I use any model and it will integrate easily with the Omni? This is what I found. What is the best thing to look for in an outdoor model? Should I bother buying outdoor model too? What kind of cable do we usually use for these? 24/2? I just found out yesterday and the first number is the size and the second is the number of wire in the cable

Door and windows sensors
Pretty much the same question as the motion detector. Can I use any type with HAI? Wich type of cable to use ?
For the garage, I found this.That's weird to have it on the floor, but I guess it's how most people install it.

Smoke detectors
I live in Canada, so I guess I should look for ULC tag? If read a lot of post about this on the forum but I don't understand everything. 1 per zone, all linked together ... It would be nice to know where the fire is. Anyone did it with an HAI controller? This is the GE and this is the FSA. What is the difference between 2 wire and 4 wire model?

Siren
It is a good thing to have one for a plan B? Because, I guess if we have a audio system, we can broadcast an audio message.

Door bell
Same thing as the siren. Would be better to use the audio system, but just to be sure, should I install one?

Lighting
Since I will go the UPB route, I will need the HAI phase coupler. I will also need 4 wire to each location, 2 for power, a ground and a neutral. Is that right? Smarthome has a lot of switches so I will look into that. Anyone know another website to compare the prices? Should I run a cat5 to each location just in case I change technology in the future?

Audio
I'm still wondering what to do with my audio. Pretty much all my music is on MP3 format. I will have a Windows Home Server run in the utility room. I have looked at Russound and Nuvo. Both product look really nice, especially the nuvo keypads. The problem is, I need a music port or a kind of interface to bring the mp3 from my computer to the sound system. I also checked Casatune. The PCI card is great, but the keypad are not looking so good. I will need some help to choose a good solution. I will put Cat5 cable to all the future keypad location and audio cable from the keypad to the speakers.

Speaking about audio cable, what is a good size and model to run? Anyone can give me some link?

Video
In the same boat as Audio. I have read a lot of thing about component vs HDMI. I will buy an HD capture these like Hauppauge If you have better suggestion, go ahead. I want to record HD cable TV and be able to watch it in the house. For that, I looked at Sage TV. But since we won't have a lot of TVs in the house, maybe I can just run a low power computer connected to the TV ?

HVAC

I will get some omnistatII to connect to the Omni. What is the difference between single stage and multi stage?

Network
I will run a lot of Cat5 cable in the house and leave them in the wall. It's easier to run them now than after they closed the walls. I like to use these wall plates. Makes all the connectors look nice.

I still have a lot more questions, but I also need to do more reading. Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you,

LJ

 

[pete_c]

Whats your budget? Will you be doing the HA stuff? or will you be contracting it out? Will your builder let you do your own stuff? (within codes etc).

Sometimes its best to put a base infrastructure so that you can do your own stuff once the home is completed.

Here in the house in the MW I retrofitted the home for HA - running cat5 everywhere, putting speakers/sound everywhere, etc. In FL I was able to spend two days running cables for a home about 3000 SF or so. I am still working on HA stuff in FL although I have music in every room right now there.

I am not a dealer / installer / just a hobbyist

 

[Luvien]

Hello,

Thanks for your answer. I want to do as much as I can because I want to learn it.

-I will run all cables myself.
-I will install most of the equipment myself.
-I'm not an electrician, so this part will be done by someone.

About the budget, I don't want to spend 50k. I want to do it gradually. Before they close the wall, I would like to install the controller, the security, the HVAC and maybe a little lighting. Later, I can complete with more lighting, audio and video.

LJ

 

[mustangcoupe]

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6700

here is the Wire your house 101 thread

 

[IVB]

run all the wiring now, then later you can focus on equipment brands. The site in my sig has a few starter wiring diagrams, but is by no means complete.

Here some random thoughts about what you could need wire. I know its far more than your list, but better to list it now and have you conciously choose not to run wiring than tell you after the walls are up. Also keep in mind that the question isn't "what do you want to do now", rather "what might you want to do later and will be sad if you realize you're out of wires".

It's a little disorganized as I kept realizing I remembering different stuff i've run. I'll look to my colleagues to see if any of the wiring suggestions are wrong.

1) Occupancy: Motion sensors for every room, run 18/4 for that.

2) Usage: Door sensors for every closet door in case you want to do auto-lighting-on, run 22/2 (or CAT5 to a central location) for that.

3) Security: Siren/CO/Smoke/Heat/Glassbreak sensors, most of them use 18/4, heat may use 22/2.

4) Driveway and or/fence gates for open/close status: 22/2 or CAT5.

5) Window sensors: 22/2, or if you have multiple together you could do CAT5 to the middle one and 22/2 to each window.

6) HA Speakers: Due to it being irritating to have audio pause to hear HA announcements/etc, I personally chose to mount a 2nd set of speakers just for HA (doorbell/phone/HA announcements/intruder alerts), and got the single-gang Elk $7 speakers. I ran CAT5 to the Elk, and put each of them on a relay so I can turn each of them on/off. Don't forget outside speakers too, such as patio and front door.

7) Doorbell: If you get an Elk panel, you could use CAT5 for the doorbell and have an Elk-based doorbell rather than a generic chime. Plus that way you'd be setup in the future to automatically pop up a frontdoor camera on doorbell ring, and not rely on the doorbell detector.

8) HVAC: 2 CAT5 to your thermo (one for integration with PC or Elk, one in case you want remote thermos)

9) 1 CAT5 to irrigation

10) Temp: 1 22/2 or CAT5 to any room where you want to mount a temp sensor to get temps in each room

11) HDTV Antenna: 1 RG6 for external antenna on roof

12) XM: 1 RG6 for XM signal cable to an external antenna

13) DirecTV: 1 RG6 per concurrent tuner you want, only one for digital cable I believe.

14) Safety/Elk:Water Sensors near hot water heater or other flood-prone locations. CAT5 I think.

15) Security Keypad, prox sensors, pin readers. CAT5.

16) Local device control. (ie, TV or local receiver control via serial) - CAT5

17) Russound/NuVo Keypads. Route speaker wiring via this location and also run CAT5.

18) Touchscreens. 2 CAT5 (should only need 1, but if you get a touchscreen only you'll need one for video, one for serial touchscreen control). You could merge this with above if you think you'll start with keypads and move on to TS's.

19) IR receivers. Run 1 CAT5 to any location you want an IR receiver. I ran one to 3 different rooms where I wanted an in-room IR eye, not an RF retransmitter.

20) Telephones. Yeah, I know, not HA related, but may as well list all random things that could need wiring together so you don't forget.

21) Video distribution. 1 CAT5 can handle component distro (if you use baluns) or 3RG6 (without baluns). I'd recommend baluns as you can stick with just running CAT5. 2 CAT5 if you'll want to be sadomasochistic to distribute HDMI. Plus, if you run back to a central wiring closet, you can just connect the cat5 patch panel to your network if you want a local SageTV HD-200 box.

22) In-Wall speakers. Run speaker wire to EVERY room, including bathrooms. You may think its nutty now (as my wife did), but once everything else is done and you have the spare whole-house-amp connections, real Whole-Home-Audio will be freaky deaky cool (as my wife now thinks).

23) Temperature sensors. Assuming 1wire (which is actually 3 wires, go figger), 22/4 to each room you want it in. I vote for putting it into every room.

 

[aartech]

Nice to hear from a fellow Canadian. If you decide to go Elk, we can certainly help you out with that as well as any of the sensors, sirens, speakers, etc. Your rationale behind going HAI over Elk was because you wanted the security component but I think you'll find both are excellent for both automation and security so you may want to dig a little deeper in to your comparison there. Since we sell Elk mainly I'm biased but I can try to help answer some questions.

With respect to cabling, the advice here is excellent and always run way more than you think you'll need. Don't forget a couple of CAT5E to any place you may have a Bluray player or TV since everything is becoming Internet connected.

I think you'll find 22/4 is more common for all the door/window/motion sensors and unless you get a much better deal on 22/2 I'd use 22/4 even where you don't think you'll need the extra wires rather than buying different types. You're looking for 'station wire' or 'zwire' FT4 rated here.

Don't forget wire for door strikes maybe... maybe an intercom system too? You never know.

As someone else mentioned, if you're buying from a standard home builder they may not let you in to do the wiring. If it's a custom builder they are more likely to accomodate you.

Another good suggestion is to add a couple conduits from basement to attic to accomodate wires you forgot to pull during construction.

Definitely run wires for speakers and keypads to every possible room now, even if you never use it...

Have fun and be prepared for it to take way longer than you think to pull thousands of feet of wire!

 

[pete_c]

Prewiring is most important. In FL I had an alarm company wire for alarm. Over did it a bit. Every window and door is wired. Every room is wired for IR. Set up for 4 keypads.

Personally I ran a CAT5 cable for just the thermostat. One furnace/AC unit and no zones.

Think about how you want to do your sound. Personally I have every room in the house in the MW / FL wired for stereo speakers.

Computers - personally have CAT5 wiring to every bedroom (3 in my sons room), 6 to my office (I built an office in one of four bedrooms in my current home and turned the closet into a mini office center with networked printers - 4 of them, FAX machine, etc). In FL wired office with 3 CAT5 for network connections. Also wired for 3 POE access points (attic, 2nd floor and main floor) a bit of overkill here.

Video - I have a minimum of 2 RG6 video connections running to each BR. Again in my office in the MW set up an LCD up in the middle of the office with electric, cat5, RG6 and also used Rapid run connections here.

You can use CAT5-6 now for just about anything with balums. Today 50% of my security cameras are using CAT5 with balums versus the other 50% which are using RG6 paired with power lines (siamese)

Media Center or family room area - I have much running from these section of the house to the "server room" section of the house - just redid my family room and added 7.1 in wall speakers in addition to about 12 more sets of ethernet cables.

When planning your wiring think about what you want to do immediately and what your long term stuff might be. (IE - I have retrofitted touch screens in my home). - as long as the wire is there then you can do it.

I over did it a bit for TV - considering I don't really watch a lot (both in FL and MW) - running cables for SAT, ANT and CABLE from the "server" area to the outside of the house.

Wiring the house will be the least cost prohibitive venture in your build and will provide the most long term solutions for your needs. Last year helped a friend pre-wire his home. Think he spent less than $1000 USD for all of his wiring. He actually got tired after day-2 of pulling wiring but we did cover just about everything.

 

[sleepovr]

Depending on where in Canada you are Eecol electric carries all the HAI stuff.

 

[signal15]

You don't need 18/4 for motions. I'm running all of my motions and glass breaks using 23AWG Cat-6. The current draw on them is like 50ma, and PoE over Cat-6 is good for up to an amp. The only thing I ran thicker wire for was door strikes, although I could have just used multiple pairs for the +/- for those. And when pulling wire, I pulled at least one extra to every location, and I used 110 blocks to punch down my cables and then cross-connect to my panel. I bought all of my wire from Monoprice because it was 1/3 of what everyone else wanted.

If you're in Canada, you can't just put a camera outside. It needs to be in a heated/ventilated enclosure. Otherwise the cold will kill it in the winter, and the enclosure would cook it in the summer without the ventilation. Searching around last year, I found some for around $350 (just for the enclosure). For IP cameras, I have an old Axis and a Lumenera 3 Megapixel. The Axis is junk, but it's old. I'm using free software called Zoneminder as my camera server, and it works quite well. For inside cameras, Panasonic makes a PTZ IP camera for under $200, and if you search google shopping you can find it for under $140. It gets excellent reviews on amazon, but I have not tried it yet.

As for HAI vs. ELK, I went with ELK because it seemed to be less expensive and it seemed like there was more DIY support for it. After I ordered it, I second guessed myself and fully priced out the HAI. The HAI did come in about $400 more expensive ($1900 instead of $1500 for what I bought). Both are great systems though. I ended up keeping the ELK, and I love it.

 

[Luvien]

Hello everyone,

Mustang - Thanks a lot for the link, very usefull information.

IVB - I read your entire thread and you website. Thanks for putting so much information available!

Aartech - Thanks for your post. I will look into Elk for sure. Thanks for the tip on the 22/4. That's what I will do. Since I never installed sensors, is there a guide or a howto that I can read? Your website has a lot of stuff that I need, I will order everything I need from there is in Canada.

Pete - I'm currently making a list of all the cable I need and where I will run them. I'll follow your advice and put a little more.

sleeovr - Thanks!!

signal - Good point about the heating/cooling. I'll look at different model. Can't yet decide to go analog or IP.

Thanks,

LJ

 

[signal15]

If you go analog on the cams, run an ethernet cable also for when you do eventually go IP. I can't imagine that there will be many analog cameras around a few years down the road.

 

[JeffCharger]

If you're in Canada, you can't just put a camera outside. It needs to be in a heated/ventilated enclosure. Otherwise the cold will kill it in the winter, and the enclosure would cook it in the summer without the ventilation. Searching around last year, I found some for around $350 (just for the enclosure).

I don't believe that you need to heat and ventilate in Canada. I have about a dozen cameras mounted outsite with little protection - let alone heating, and they're fine through winter. I have some that have been working for 5 years. I agree wtih ventilation so that moisture doesn't build up, and a roof to protect snow build up works wonders.

 

[signal15]

If you're in Canada, you can't just put a camera outside. It needs to be in a heated/ventilated enclosure. Otherwise the cold will kill it in the winter, and the enclosure would cook it in the summer without the ventilation. Searching around last year, I found some for around $350 (just for the enclosure).

I don't believe that you need to heat and ventilate in Canada. I have about a dozen cameras mounted outsite with little protection - let alone heating, and they're fine through winter. I have some that have been working for 5 years. I agree wtih ventilation so that moisture doesn't build up, and a roof to protect snow build up works wonders.

Really? I'm in MN, and everyone here is telling me that I absolutely must have an enclosure which is heated and ventilated. I have a friend that runs an ISP, and they were hired to set up a time lapse camera for a skyscraper that was being put up a few years ago. The summer sun killed 3 of them, and the winter cold killed 1. Those were $2000 (at the time) Panasonic weather resistant cams also.

 

[Lagerhead]

For the garage, I found this.That's weird to have it on the floor, but I guess it's how most people install it.

You do not need to install this on the floor; you can mount it at the top of the garage door. Or you can use ordinary magnetic door contacts for your garage doors if you have a reliably small gap and/or a strong magnet. With these choices you can make a decision based on cost.

 

[JeffCharger]

If you're in Canada, you can't just put a camera outside. It needs to be in a heated/ventilated enclosure. Otherwise the cold will kill it in the winter, and the enclosure would cook it in the summer without the ventilation. Searching around last year, I found some for around $350 (just for the enclosure).

I don't believe that you need to heat and ventilate in Canada. I have about a dozen cameras mounted outsite with little protection - let alone heating, and they're fine through winter. I have some that have been working for 5 years. I agree wtih ventilation so that moisture doesn't build up, and a roof to protect snow build up works wonders.

Really? I'm in MN, and everyone here is telling me that I absolutely must have an enclosure which is heated and ventilated. I have a friend that runs an ISP, and they were hired to set up a time lapse camera for a skyscraper that was being put up a few years ago. The summer sun killed 3 of them, and the winter cold killed 1. Those were $2000 (at the time) Panasonic weather resistant cams also.

Maybe it's different for different types of cameras. I run some simple CCTV sonys and other brands.... certainly nothing above $300. I heated some my first year, but also found that those that weren't heated didn't have any problem. I now try to put them under cover so that snow doesn't accumulate on them. I also found that trying to enclose them was counter-productive. It actually resulted in moisture build up - where it couldn't escape. Now I just put a roof over them.

That all being said.... if it was more than a hobby, then I'd suggest something more sophisticated than what I do... but I haven't had any problems in southern Ontario.