Ceiling Fan AND light control?

[WayneW]

situation: a ceiling fan with light kit, controlled by one wall switch. I am assuming there is only a switched hot lead (plus neutral and ground) going up to the fan junction box.

question: what is the easiest way to automate control of the fan (on/off only would be fine) and the light SEPARATELY?

I know that Home Depot and/or Lowes sell some remote control gadgets that can be used to retrofit and gain separate control of the fan and light. Some are wall mounted and some have a wireless remote, but I believe that they all use RF to communicate with the receiver in the fan canopy. Has anybody seen otherwise? I know there are some high end fans (like Casablanca) that have a control system built into the fan to do fancy things with only a standard 2 wires. Do any of these units lend themselves to automation? The obvious thing that I see is to hack apart the wireless remote and connect relays to the switches to simulate human presses.


Along the same lines of limited wiring, I have a standard exterior motion detector and floodlight kit mounted under the roof eaves. I would like to use the motion sensor to signal something/somehow AND I want to be able to control the light manually. I used a couple X10 PR511s in my old house, but I suspected they were the source of some strange X10 signals and noise, so I left them. Are there any alternative or easy hacks without running new wires? What can I cram in the junction box to transmit with motion and control the light?

 

[rocco]

. . . I am assuming there is only a switched hot lead (plus neutral and ground) going up to the fan junction box.

I made the same assumption about my ceiling fans, but when I opened the boxes, I found that they had switch-legs, instead of lamp-legs. The power ran to the ceiling fan box first.

I wired the light to work off of the wall switch, and wired the fan to be on all of the time (actually, we use the little pull-chain for the fan). At some point I will wire in the ZigBee equivalent of an X10 in-line module. You might try an X10 in-line module.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Wayne:

This is sort of what Rocco said, but the only way I know of doing this to bypass the switch and use two in-line X-10 modules right at the fan/light canopy or inside the fan case itself (there is usually a lot of room there). You could then just mount a smarthome switchlinc or something like that and control the fan and light (and other things) via an X-10 signal.

Did I make any sense just now (getting tired)? :lol:

 

[JohnBullard]

Martin has an x10 3 speed FAN control switch on his website and used in conjunction with an inline module for the lights should work.

(Maybe Martin can post the link to the switch)

Somwhere I saw a hack for the RF fan/light controls, that allow them to be x10 controlled. I have 3 of these (not hacked yet) but I printed it out and put it in a file for future projects, I see it I can find it.

 

[WayneW]

Martin has an x10 3 speed FAN control switch on his website and used in conjunction with an inline module for the lights should work.

Yes, I am aware of that $90 Compose switch, but I don't see how that would work in my situation, unless I ignore the human part of the switch and mount it in the fan canopy like BSR said. If I wall mount that switch, it would disturb the power going to the whole fixture, which would affect the light. I guess I need to actually check my wiring and see if the hot source appears at the wall or at the ceiling, like Rocco suggested.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Wayne, I think you have a good grasp for it. BSR is on the money with the in-line modules. I think you would use a keypadlinc though, not a switchlinc, for the controls.

in the next month or two we may have a new product coming out that would allow for total control of thefan, fan speed, and the light. A local guy here is working on something for me to accomplish this. I'll keep you posted as we get more details.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Your right Martin, I meant to say Keypadlinc8. There has to be a hot wire somewhere in that box, so this would just replace that switch so now you don't control it "directly via hardwire" rather via X-10 commands.

Thanks for keeping me straight my friend! :lol:

 

[kwilcox]

damn it man, line up those wallcover plate screws for gods sake! :lol:

yeah... I'm too AR....

 

[electron]

:lol: that's funny!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

hehe, its a "close-up" shot, you never notice it when you're in the room. :lol:

 

[kwilcox]

Anyway, all kidding aside... :lol:

If your electrical box has a neutral then you're in business. Unless your home's age is 50 years or greater this should be the case; your switch box should have 3 wires (hot, switched hot, neutral) + ground inside. Now install either an X10 Keypadlinc like BSR illustrated or a UPB dual toggle switch such as the SAI US230 with a dual decora faceplate. Next connect your switched load wire (this one goes to the ceiling box) to the switched load output of the switch assy.

In the overhead fixture, this wire will connect to the fan light. Next, install either an X10 dimming inline module or, if you chose the UPB solution, a UPB dimming inline module such as the SAI model UFD into the ceiling box (you may have to replace your ceiling box with a deeper one to accomplish this). Connect the motor portion of your fan fixture to the output of this device. Now set up your X10 H/U codes or run UPStart and create a link between the switch and the inline module.

Bada bing.

You could reverse the light and fan connections if you want; I've simply done it this way because the powerline protocol delay is less noticable when it's connected to the fan motor. Connecting the light directly to the load insures instantaneous and smooth dimming.

 

[kwilcox]

of course.... this all assumes there's a hot wire in the ceiling box. You'll be rolling the dice on this one. If there isn't then there are some... ummm... "not-to-code" solutions as well involving using the ground in the 14/2 romex going from the switch box to the overhead box for a neutral and the hot/neutral wires for hot/switched hot...

... I :cough: have never personally done this..... :lol:

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

of course.... this all assumes there's a hot wire in the ceiling box.  You'll be rolling the dice on this one.  If there isn't then there are some... ummm... "not-to-code" solutions as well involving using the ground in the 14/2 romex going from the switch box to the overhead box for a neutral and the hot/neutral wires for hot/switched hot...

... I :cough: have never personally done this..... :lol:

Hehe, being a "respected" member of CocoonTech, I was thinking the same thing but just couldn't get myself to post it! Here is a hint (as Kwilcox was getting to), it has to do with the ground wire running from your switch box to your ceiling fan and is everything really grounded in your home???

Hehe, just "count" the total number of wires running from your switch to the ceiling fan/junction box and "you are on your own"!!

But, you DID NOT hear this from me!!

 

[kwilcox]

What we really need here is a wire in dimming module that has outputs for two loads. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody actually makes one of these.....

[oops... edited out an in-depth reiteration of the same suggestion that BSR had using 2 inline modules a couple of posts earlier....]

The cheap solution of course if you can do it is to simply pull 14/3 to the overhead.... but how much fun is that anyway???:lol:

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

[oops... edited out an in-depth reiteration of the same suggestion that BSR had using 2 inline modules a couple of posts earlier....]

Hey, great minds think alike and you can never hear a good suggestion enough times! :lol:

I can vouch for those inline modules working in the heat as I have four of them in "extended" octagon cases on the outside of my home here in Las Vegas and they have had 115 degree sun beating on them and they still work great. They each control two 60 watt outdoor floodlights.

BTW, sorry kwilcox, I mis-edited your post. Had a hard day here doing msc. stuff and I accidently hit "EDIT" instead of "QUOTE". Hopefully I got your post in the shape it was before I messed it up. I hate it when I do that! (Hope Electron doesn't find out )!

Regards,

BSR