Central Closet Help

[jkearney]

Good Evening,
 
I am remodeling my house and would like to put all of my Hd/DVR boxes into one central location in the basement. I am looking for some advice here. I will have 7 HD boxes in 7 different rooms. The longest run will be about 35 ft. I have Comcast where I am located and am looking for ideas on the best way to do this. Can I just simply put all the cable boxes in the closet in the basement and then run HDMI cables from that closet to each room? I am also running cat5e to every room from this same closet. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[drvnbysound]

Yes, you could definitely do that. Some may recommend media converters (a la baluns) to do this, but HDMI will definitely work too.
 
Will any of the TVs be "smart" TVs? If so, you can use your Cat5E for this.
 
Do you have a plan for control? How do you plan to control each STB from the respective room(s)?

 

[LarrylLix]

Nice idea but wouldn't long HDMI cables lose the high-def effects offered with HD or even 4K coming on strong? Good HDMI cables can get very expensive.
 
Run multiple Cat5/6 cables to media centre areas.

 

[wkearney99]

Nice idea but wouldn't long HDMI cables lose the high-def effects offered with HD or even 4K coming on strong? Good HDMI cables can get very expensive.
 
Run multiple Cat5/6 cables to media centre areas.

 
HDMI can be reliably run upwards of 50 feet.  That and the cables aren't necessarily all that expensive.  You just need to make sure they're heavier gauge.  Also note most electrical code does specify that you're "supposed to" use cabling tested and rated for in-wall installation.  Lots of folks ignore this, but it's worth keeping in mind (for current safety and future resale).  
 
It's absolutely a good plan to run multiple CAT5E cables to each location.  At least 3.  One for something-over-CAT5, one for Ethernet and one for another of either.  
 
Some HDMI distribution schemes required 2 CAT5 cables, current ones usually require only one.  But they might require CAT6 (little actually does).
 
If you only run one Ethernet cable then you'll need to add an Ethernet switch in-room.  Which is pretty much going to be required when you factor all the gizmos into the equation.  TV's and the receivers have Ethernet ports.  Local media streamers also (FireTV, Roku, AppleTV).  Sure, lots of them claim to be able to work over WiFi.  Reality is that streaming a lot of media over wireless ends up being a problem, so DO NOT plan on that working (especially if there's any other nearby WiFi networks in active use).  
 
But to your first question, the big issue is sending IR remote control signals back to the cable boxes.  There are various ways to do this, typically with a powered IR receiver in-room, wired via CAT5 back to the rack and then back out again with emitters stuck on the front of the cable boxes.  
 
If this sounds like a gerry-rigged nightmare, welcome to "automation".
 
There are some HDMI-over-CAT5 solutions that also include IR sending back to the sources.  I've not worked with any of them.
 
If you want my advice?  Plan on the boxes still being in the room.  There are a ton of very clever ways to mount a cable box.  Their IR pickups are such that even if mounted vertically behind the back of the TV you should still be able to control them due to IR "bounce" off nearby surfaces.
 
Meanwhile, plan on wiring each location that *might* have a TV with two RG6 coax cables and three CAT5E.  That'll cover the basics.  There's little need to add more coax, but a few extra CAT5 or a CAT6 would be worth considering for anything that might be more than "just a TV", like in a bedroom, guest room or the like.

 

[RAL]

I would run the HDMI signals over a pair of Cat5e or Cat6 cables and use baluns at each end. With CatX cables, you can easily replace the connectors at each end should you ever have problems.  If you run HDMI cables through the walls, once things are closed in, you will never be able to replace them and it will be very tough to replace or repair the connectors.
 
If you decide to go with real HDMI cables anyway, get high quality CL2 or CL3 cables constructed with 24 AWG wire.  At long distances, the heavier conductors will help reduce signal attenuation.

 

[drvnbysound]

I would run the HDMI signals over a pair of Cat5e or Cat6 cables and use baluns at each end. With CatX cables, you can easily replace the connectors at each end should you ever have problems.  If you run HDMI cables through the walls, once things are closed in, you will never be able to replace them and it will be very tough to replace or repair the connectors.
 
If you decide to go with real HDMI cables anyway, get high quality CL2 or CL3 cables constructed with 24 AWG wire.  At long distances, the heavier conductors will help reduce signal attenuation.

 
Why's that?
 
I ran a 50' HDMI cable in-wall last year to centralize my AV gear to an adjacent closet. My home was built in 2007. I would have no problem replacing the cable if needed.

 

[jkearney]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I just got bombarded with so much information I guess I really need to take a step back and plan this properly. One question I have is should I spend a little more money and upgrade to Cat6 instead of Cat5e, and I am definitely going to run 3 drops to each room now after reading this.
 
Every TV in the house will be a smart TV, and every TV will be mounted on the wall. I am going to take the advice of three Cat(x) cables to each room and run 1 to a wall plate that will be hidden behind the TV and run two more to the wall plate that will be lowered by the TV stand, etc.
 
I am also putting in-ceiling speakers in a lot of the rooms, I am going to run the speaker wire as well and have each room come back to this same closet. The speakers will be powered by Sonos Connect:AMPS which I want to hide in this centralized location as well.
 
I am reading about Cat6 to HDMI, I never knew this existed and am going to research this some more today but I guess hiding the cable boxes in each room is not a terrible idea either. 
 
I greatly appreciate all of the insight and if anyone has any other ideas for me that would be awesome. I am trying not to miss some little stuff, I don't want to seal everything up and sit there scratching my head like "darn, why didn't I run this type of cable here as well".
 
THANKS AGAIN!

 

[drvnbysound]

The cable box in each room isn't a good/bad thing to me... I don't really have a preference there. The centrailized A/V wiring is of benefit for me if I want to share a video source to multiple locations. One example of this is my CCTV system. I like being able to view my security cameras from any TV in my home.

 

[pete_c]

There is a user here on CT and Homeseer that has done similiar with DirectTV STB's wiring for HDMI out from a central closet location.
 
Here is a picture of his wiring closet before finishing it.  The username here is Mario23?
 
Guessing he is now living in the home with the distributed HDMI and IR Blasters (well and automating it). 
 

 

[Neurorad]

The cable box in each room isn't a good/bad thing to me... I don't really have a preference there. The centrailized A/V wiring is of benefit for me if I want to share a video source to multiple locations. One example of this is my CCTV system. I like being able to view my security cameras from any TV in my home.

There is another drawback to using cable boxes in each room.
 
At 2 locations in my house, I have client satellite boxes mounted behind and under the TVs (DirecTV, size of a pack of cards, share recording from the DVR elsewhere).
 
The problem with mounting a client box at/behind the TV is that you still need amplification, for in-wall/in-ceiling speakers.  Currently, I'm using Nuvo in-wall amps to power the speakers.  Works well for 2 channel, but not for more.
 
I will eventually move those boxes to the central closet, and use rack-mount amps/AVRs.

 

[pete_c]

Here still utilize Direct TV STB's.  Its a mix of old and new stuff.  Testing HDMI still using HDMI / rapidrun cabling. 
 
That said will most likely never distribute IR remotes or HDMI to a central closet of STBs. I do IR blasting today.  
 
I do see this in bars / restaurants a lot.  I just prefer not to waste closet space on a bunch of STBs (rented these days) and distributing HDMI just to watch television.  That is me though. 
 
Personally though like my PDA telephone I am not tethered to multiple cable or satellite provider mulitiple channel TV mutiple TV watching (even though today we do have multiple services - WAF thing). 
 
I did mix the zoned Russound audio with sub audio setups which have 5.1 (and more speakers) or 7.1 (and more speakers) with AVRs locally.
 
Most current video distribution configuration is via one RG6 that carries OTA HD broadcast stuff plus channels of private rebroadcast of stuff. (my stuff).  WAF dictates legacy stuff right now.
 
and
 
A Gb connected XBMC box (with optical HD audio out). 

 

[drvnbysound]

There is another drawback to using cable boxes in each room.
 
At 2 locations in my house, I have client satellite boxes mounted behind and under the TVs (DirecTV, size of a pack of cards, share recording from the DVR elsewhere).
 
The problem with mounting a client box at/behind the TV is that you still need amplification, for in-wall/in-ceiling speakers.  Currently, I'm using Nuvo in-wall amps to power the speakers.  Works well for 2 channel, but not for more.
 
I will eventually move those boxes to the central closet, and use rack-mount amps/AVRs.

 
True. I only have an external amplifier for my living room 5.1 system. I do not utilize additional speakers for other TV locations, just those built into the TVs.
 
That does not account for the whole-home audio speakers I have, but those are not integrated with any of my video sources.

 

[pete_c]

Here went legacy analog (audio) in order to utilize the zoned Russound in wall speakers plus AVR stuff put Russound AB switches into the wall boxes.  You have to push a button, turn a knob and utilize either the KPL controller or in wall Omnitouch (in main room) or the AVR. XBMC box is plugged into the AVR and LCD. (gets whatever there).  More into the audio stuff. 
 
The LV in wall boxes in the master bedroom are in the hallway to the master bathroom.  Its two zoned amp zones plus two local amp sub zones.

 

[wkearney99]

There's trade-offs to be made regarding how to wire up the speakers in a room.  
 
I'd love to have guaranteed reliability for rack-mounting everything back in a central location.  But a lot of AV gear ends up not cooperating with that notion.  Take the Xbox One, for example, there's no way to extend the Kinect sensor.  That and it's cabling is TOO DAMNED SHORT.  So the console HAS TO BE near the front of the seating area.  I don't want to divert this thread onto that discussion, so let's not...  
 
But it's one of many examples of where the vendor's ideas about where to put things ends up causing no end of headaches when trying to insist upon a rack-mounted, centralized scheme.  Other annoying stuff like IR frequencies just out of what the repeaters support (or horribly implemented codes for universal integration).  This has gotten "less worse" in recent years, but it's still something to be very cautious about when planning automation.
 
I tend to side toward pulling wires through locations (and leaving slack) that could serve as a room-facing install.  This way you have the wire running back to the rack, but also looping through a point where local equipment could be placed.    The key being leaving enough slack AND enough wall surface to allow for that.
 
Even when you "know" how a space is going to be used it's still a good idea to allow for alternatives.
 
As for this whole "you can't put HDMI in the wall" that's just not true.  
 
Yes, the cabling and the connectors are more difficult to deal with than just yanking CAT5E.  But it's not impossible, neither to install or replace after the fact.  But it would be prudent to allow for that possible replacement.  CAT5 fastened to studs or in tight bundles is likewise impossible to replace after the fact.  So it would be a bad plan to install HDMI in that same manner.  Pull it through it's own conduit (which will have to be oversized for the connector) or loose in the wall/ceiling cavities (which does not follow electrical code).  There's trade-offs to be made, but sometimes they're necessary.
 
Given the very finicky nature of HDMI and HDCP it would be unwise to assume CAT5 converters are always going to work.  That and they introduce another set of devices, one that typically requires power at both ends.  I do like the idea of the HD-Base-T scheme (HDMI over one CAT5E) but it's not something I'd absolutely depend upon if it was at all possible to also pull an HDMI cable along with it.

 

[pete_c]

I am testing (using) HDMI runs (HDMI, RapidRun and CatXX) cable between home office and master bedroom using Keystone jacks (one has 8). 
 
Years before went to utilizing "thin" RG6.  The HDMI cables were just thick and difficult to run but not impossible.  The IR blaster and receiver keystone jack is adjacent.  Really just a PITA even a short test run. (up to the attic and down from the attic).
 
Tested USB.  I have two 25 foot USB from Homeseer to many connections using active USB.  That said this stuff works OK USB to DigiUSB to Digi Edgeports.  Longer runs had some issues.  VM tested USB Anywhere / Lantronics USB to network and it worked just fine.  Digi USB Anywhere to Digi USB 7 port hub to multiple USB devices and two 8 port Edgeports. 
 
I say this yet for my audio used 16 guage 4/2 jacketed cable for zoned speaker wires to the base com closet and a paired catxx cable for just audio.  I had more energy to run these cables at the time?
 
My plug n play current preference is is to multipurpose the catXX cable. Easy to do when it just patched into a patch panel.  Maybe its me not being as particular about video content as audio content?  Well too its easier to run one HDMI cable from the remote controllabe in numerous ways "box- XBMC" out to the LCD.  I mean it works.
 
You can also maybe connect multiple XBMC boxes (remote controllable say via a touch screen) to an HDMI switcher centrally located and just control the HDMI output to whatever LCD from whatever XBMC HDMI source.  I am sort of testing this with multiple Squeeze boxes plugged into different sources on my Russound set up.  I can remote the them from a touchscreen.