CES Info
- Thread starter TonyNo
- Start date
Hmm, no additional information on the RemoteLinc? About how big is that thing? How much does it feel like it weighs? Did you get to push the buttons? What kind of tactile feedback is there? Do the 6 buttons at the top light up? Are the circular buttons backlit? Does it make any kind of sound when you press a button (like the ControlLinc)? Were we correct in guessing that the empty space between the 6 buttons at the top is for a label? Come on, man... throw us a bone! :blink:
Seriously though, we'd appreciate any additional information you can provide us hungry bottom-feeder Insteon users that were unable to go to CES2007. ^_^
Seriously though, we'd appreciate any additional information you can provide us hungry bottom-feeder Insteon users that were unable to go to CES2007. ^_^
HighTest
Active Member
The size of that remote bothered me at first, and then I remembered that Insteon requires two-way communications. This is likely the reason that it's much larger as the X10 RF remotes were only one way and relied on having the correct house code, ect per button. The RemoteLinc will need to communicate to link the devices to each button and requires a more complex radio.
It may also follow their rugged design that I've seen on the ControlLinc as well, where you can really bang these up and have no problems.
But at least RF is here and other RF products produced by others besides SmartLabs may get smaller and more stylish.
It may also follow their rugged design that I've seen on the ControlLinc as well, where you can really bang these up and have no problems.
But at least RF is here and other RF products produced by others besides SmartLabs may get smaller and more stylish.
The SignalLinc isn't battery powered, nor does it have any buttons/controls. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
I was also wondering what battery life will be like since it is 2-way?
Is there any reason why a RemoteLinc or other RF remote would HAVE to be 2-way? I have no reason, that I can think of, for a remote to be 2-way.
I simply want a keychain-size remote to control my outside lights, and a larger remote for my theater room to control lighting in there.
I'd love an IR translator to use my Harmony remote also.
I'm currently using x10 devices to perform all these tasks, but want to go all Insteon.
I was also wondering what battery life will be like since it is 2-way?
Is there any reason why a RemoteLinc or other RF remote would HAVE to be 2-way? I have no reason, that I can think of, for a remote to be 2-way.
I simply want a keychain-size remote to control my outside lights, and a larger remote for my theater room to control lighting in there.
I'd love an IR translator to use my Harmony remote also.
I'm currently using x10 devices to perform all these tasks, but want to go all Insteon.
There's not much inside a SignalLinc. They could have fit it in a smaller enclosure if they wanted to. Instead, they just used their standard SmartLabs enclosure, which is the exact same enclosured used for just about every plug-in Insteon product, including PLC's (both USB & Serial), LampLinc, & ApplianceLinc modules. Going back to the RemoteLinc, 2-4 AA batteries really wouldn't take up that much room. And the controls could be made to any shape and size. Most remotes use either tiny microswitches or a thin plastic membrane that's 1/16 (just guessing) as thick as a plastic credit card. I'm absolutely positive they could fit this RemoteLinc into a smaller package if they had really wanted to. In fact, you could probably take apart a RemoteLinc and stuff the contents into a RadioShack project box and replace the button controls with just about anything you want.Mike Boulanger said:
And just for the record, the RemoteLinc should be 2-way in order to correctly implement and support the Insteon protocol. For those of you who are unaware of how the Insteon protocol works, any Insteon device that sends a non-broadcast message through the Insteon network expects an ACK (acknowledgement) from the intended recipient of the message. If that ACK does not occur, then the sending device must retransmit the message, up to several times. If no ACK occurs after this, then the Insteon device will usually flash its status light as a way of indicating that it was not able to communicate with the other device. This retransmission is just one of the things that makes the Insteon protocol 100 times more reliable than X10. If the RemoteLinc didn't support 2-way communications, then the remote wouldn't know if the message was responded to. Just my 2-cents.
Range is going to be an interesting issue, since the RemoteLincs are communicating with the SignalLincs. I think I read somewhere that SignalLincs only have a range of roughly 30 feet. I know you can add a second (or even third) pair if you need to.
Thanks for the information on the SignalLinc and 2-way communications.
Personally, I'd be willing to give up the 'error checking' on something like a keychain remote, especially if it would reduce size and/or increase battery life.
I'm also interested in the range issues - I currently use a WGL x10 extended range tranceiver so I can send x10 signals from the top of my driveway to turn on/off my driveway lights. It barely works at that range with the x10 keychain remote, but I'm willing to push the button 3 or 4 times to get my lights to go on. The x10 palm remote works almost 100%, but of course doesn't fit on my keychain!
I'm fairly certain that the SignalLincs won't reach the top of my driveway, but I hope that some sort of extended range solution appears.
Personally, I'd be willing to give up the 'error checking' on something like a keychain remote, especially if it would reduce size and/or increase battery life.
I'm also interested in the range issues - I currently use a WGL x10 extended range tranceiver so I can send x10 signals from the top of my driveway to turn on/off my driveway lights. It barely works at that range with the x10 keychain remote, but I'm willing to push the button 3 or 4 times to get my lights to go on. The x10 palm remote works almost 100%, but of course doesn't fit on my keychain!
I'm fairly certain that the SignalLincs won't reach the top of my driveway, but I hope that some sort of extended range solution appears.
If I am sitting in the HT with my Harmony 890 in my hand, and I press the button for the light to dim, if they don't then I know to press it again. I could care less if the Harmony knows if the lights dimmed.Xpendable said:
I would rather have to press it twice than to have that ugly ass thing where anyone could see it.
fitzpatri8
Active Member
IMHO, maintaining 2-way operation in new Insteon wireless products is mandatory because:
- Consistency along product lines is good. "Insteon devices are 2-way with signal confirmation and automatic resend." That message looses its power to persuade if it is followed by weasel words like "in this product and that, but not the other."
- Peer pressure. The other protocol's remotes flash if the signal didn't make it through. Should Insteon settle for being in any way inferior to the competition? Will the majority of customers?
- Varied roles of Insteon RF devices. You may be willing to press the button on your TV remote again if you can see the message doesn't 'take' the first time, but what about wireless motion sensors? Do you really want to have to keep moving around a dark bathroom hoping the signal will go through if it sees you again in ten seconds? Wireless smoke detectors obviously have to keep trying until the lights go on, but they shouldn't transmit ceaselessly lest we lose control of our home until we clear the smoke from our latest little cooking adventure in the kitchen.
- Convenience. This is actually a logical idea with home automation, since some customers will use remotes to activate and deactivate devices outside of their immediate point of view. (E.g. wife heads to upstairs to get a book, so you as loving husband turns on the lights for her. Or you trigger your "Leaving the House" macro as you lock the front door, automatically turning off unnecessary lights, setting the burglar alarm, activating video surveillance, disabling the telephone ringer and turning off whole-house announcements.)
- Product differentiation. Why should people spend $$$ to upgrade their remotes from x10 to Insteon compatible? You can bet that Insteon RF devices are going to be a bit pricier than older x10 stuff. Device confirmation and automatic retry turns the remotes from x10 "press and pray" technology to modern "press and play" devices.
I've been cringing as I've witnessed increasing pressure for SmartHome to develop a remote control. I could see subcontracting out the design and manufacture of a 2-way keychain remote, like a car alarm remote, but something for the coffee table?
The talents required to design and build an ergonomic, full featured, portable, battery-operated device are quite a bit different from those tasked to hardware in other form factors. I suspect the better approach would be for WE USERS to exert pressure on existing remote control designers and manufacturers, people already in-the-know and already possessing the expertise, to build Insteon-compatibility into their new products.
Tom
- Consistency along product lines is good. "Insteon devices are 2-way with signal confirmation and automatic resend." That message looses its power to persuade if it is followed by weasel words like "in this product and that, but not the other."
- Peer pressure. The other protocol's remotes flash if the signal didn't make it through. Should Insteon settle for being in any way inferior to the competition? Will the majority of customers?
- Varied roles of Insteon RF devices. You may be willing to press the button on your TV remote again if you can see the message doesn't 'take' the first time, but what about wireless motion sensors? Do you really want to have to keep moving around a dark bathroom hoping the signal will go through if it sees you again in ten seconds? Wireless smoke detectors obviously have to keep trying until the lights go on, but they shouldn't transmit ceaselessly lest we lose control of our home until we clear the smoke from our latest little cooking adventure in the kitchen.
- Convenience. This is actually a logical idea with home automation, since some customers will use remotes to activate and deactivate devices outside of their immediate point of view. (E.g. wife heads to upstairs to get a book, so you as loving husband turns on the lights for her. Or you trigger your "Leaving the House" macro as you lock the front door, automatically turning off unnecessary lights, setting the burglar alarm, activating video surveillance, disabling the telephone ringer and turning off whole-house announcements.)
- Product differentiation. Why should people spend $$$ to upgrade their remotes from x10 to Insteon compatible? You can bet that Insteon RF devices are going to be a bit pricier than older x10 stuff. Device confirmation and automatic retry turns the remotes from x10 "press and pray" technology to modern "press and play" devices.
I've been cringing as I've witnessed increasing pressure for SmartHome to develop a remote control. I could see subcontracting out the design and manufacture of a 2-way keychain remote, like a car alarm remote, but something for the coffee table?
The talents required to design and build an ergonomic, full featured, portable, battery-operated device are quite a bit different from those tasked to hardware in other form factors. I suspect the better approach would be for WE USERS to exert pressure on existing remote control designers and manufacturers, people already in-the-know and already possessing the expertise, to build Insteon-compatibility into their new products.
Tom
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Great point. I agree completely in those circumstances. But your examples are automated devices. I am talking about manual remotes. I don't want to have to buy the SH remote to get its functionality.fitzpatri8 said:
Maybe that is what THEY want, but its not happening. Besides, what stops me from capturing the "code" from the RemoteLinc and installing it on my Harmony?
