Cheap controllable relays?
- Thread starter beelzerob
- Start date
beelzerob
Senior Member
Is this a related question, or should I start a new thread:
Besides relays (which I understand to be useful for closing and opening circuits), I also need something that can detect an open or closed circuit. Right now I'm using the Datanat Ai32, and it works great...but unfortunately, it's just a tad slow when it comes to detecting my door magnetic switches. I might be able to squeeze a little more performance out of it with faster polling, but in the meantime, what I'm wanting is something simple and cheap that would allow me to monitor maybe a dozen contact switches and get near-instant notification that one has closed or opened.
Besides relays (which I understand to be useful for closing and opening circuits), I also need something that can detect an open or closed circuit. Right now I'm using the Datanat Ai32, and it works great...but unfortunately, it's just a tad slow when it comes to detecting my door magnetic switches. I might be able to squeeze a little more performance out of it with faster polling, but in the meantime, what I'm wanting is something simple and cheap that would allow me to monitor maybe a dozen contact switches and get near-instant notification that one has closed or opened.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Any other suggestions, anyone? Does everyone just have an Elk they use??
I've heard of the Ocelot, but never looked into it. Now that I've done some very minor research on it....does it only connect via some X10 interface? More importantly, does it have a serial interface that I can communicate with? It'll have to work with CQC, which means I'd need some kind of serial protocol spec.
Does it respond immediately to contact closure changes? I seem to remember the Ocelot is a slow animal....
I've heard of the Ocelot, but never looked into it. Now that I've done some very minor research on it....does it only connect via some X10 interface? More importantly, does it have a serial interface that I can communicate with? It'll have to work with CQC, which means I'd need some kind of serial protocol spec.
Does it respond immediately to contact closure changes? I seem to remember the Ocelot is a slow animal....
toymaster458
Active Member
It does have a serial interface and if I remember the protocol is freely downloadable. Dean started to create a CQC driver for it but there was not much call for it so he did not proceed on it.Any other suggestions, anyone? Does everyone just have an Elk they use??
I've heard of the Ocelot, but never looked into it. Now that I've done some very minor research on it....does it only connect via some X10 interface? More importantly, does it have a serial interface that I can communicate with? It'll have to work with CQC, which means I'd need some kind of serial protocol spec.
Does it respond immediately to contact closure changes? I seem to remember the Ocelot is a slow animal....
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
My Ocelot (along with the SECU16I and RLY8XA expansion units) is the single most important home automation hardware piece I have. I have a lot of logic (via the CMax programming) that it runs with perfect reliability.
You do have to get used to the ladder logic type of programming, but I find it superior (at least the ones I looked into) to any other product out there, especially when dealing with timers.
BTW: Not sure what you mean by the Ocelot being slow...can you provide a number??
You do have to get used to the ladder logic type of programming, but I find it superior (at least the ones I looked into) to any other product out there, especially when dealing with timers.
BTW: Not sure what you mean by the Ocelot being slow...can you provide a number??
beelzerob
Senior Member
Geez, BSR...if ever there was a ringing endorsement....
Sorry for the confusion, I meant the biological Ocelot, which I think I was confusing with a sloth, since the ocelot is a type of Leopard, so that should be fast enough for HA needs. I'm certain a leopard can react quickly enough to someone opening the door.
Ok, so long as there's a serial spec I can create a driver for, then I'm in business. And am I right that this thing is expandable? I've got a bead on an ocelot and a secu-16, which I understand will give me 8 inputs. I'm actually going to need closer to 16 fast-inputs (and to confirm...the ocelot is fast to respond to closed switches?). So as long as I can get another secu16 somewhere....
Getting a secu16 kinda helps, as that solves another issue that this thread was devoted to....relays!
Sorry for the confusion, I meant the biological Ocelot, which I think I was confusing with a sloth, since the ocelot is a type of Leopard, so that should be fast enough for HA needs. I'm certain a leopard can react quickly enough to someone opening the door.
Ok, so long as there's a serial spec I can create a driver for, then I'm in business. And am I right that this thing is expandable? I've got a bead on an ocelot and a secu-16, which I understand will give me 8 inputs. I'm actually going to need closer to 16 fast-inputs (and to confirm...the ocelot is fast to respond to closed switches?). So as long as I can get another secu16 somewhere....
Getting a secu16 kinda helps, as that solves another issue that this thread was devoted to....relays!
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Actually, I use the SECU16I. I would stay away from the SECU16, especially if wanting to use it for relay switching (relays will not switch some inductive loads). The RLY8XA has good Potter Brumfield industrial quality relays on it and is a much better product.
Problem is you have to get two units (one for relay output and one for digital input) using this method. Also, the SECU16I does not measure analog input levels (just digital inputs).
Problem is you have to get two units (one for relay output and one for digital input) using this method. Also, the SECU16I does not measure analog input levels (just digital inputs).
beelzerob
Senior Member
Hmm...well, here's my scenario....
There are 10 fire alarm contacts and 5 doors that I want to have near-instantaeous notification into cqc that the contacts have been opened or closed. If I HAD to, I could narrow that down to just the doors, because the smoke alarm contacts won't change state as quickly as a door contact does.
The Datanab32 I have now is incredibly useful, and in the lack of anything else, I'll use that...but it can be somewhat slow to notice the contact has changed. Thats' fine for my windows, but I've been able to open, walk through the door, and close it before it ever registered. That's what I'm trying to avoid. Same with the smoke alarms, if possible.
I believe the unit I'm looking at is a standard secu16....so, would it NOT work in this capacity, or is it just the relays you're talking about?
As far as relays, SO FAR, the only thing I'd like to use a relay for is closing the garage door opener circuit...I've not identified another use for a relay yet. (yet!)
There are 10 fire alarm contacts and 5 doors that I want to have near-instantaeous notification into cqc that the contacts have been opened or closed. If I HAD to, I could narrow that down to just the doors, because the smoke alarm contacts won't change state as quickly as a door contact does.
The Datanab32 I have now is incredibly useful, and in the lack of anything else, I'll use that...but it can be somewhat slow to notice the contact has changed. Thats' fine for my windows, but I've been able to open, walk through the door, and close it before it ever registered. That's what I'm trying to avoid. Same with the smoke alarms, if possible.
I believe the unit I'm looking at is a standard secu16....so, would it NOT work in this capacity, or is it just the relays you're talking about?
As far as relays, SO FAR, the only thing I'd like to use a relay for is closing the garage door opener circuit...I've not identified another use for a relay yet. (yet!)
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
HERE is the App Dig site for expansion modules. If you have 15 inputs, you will probably want the SECU16I as it has 16 digital inputs (no outputs).
The SECU16 has digital inputs and outputs, but only eight each. Sounds like you will need to have two of any expansion module combination so I would go with just the SECU16I first, then add the RLY8XA later on down the road. Of course your Datanab could be used for a Relay output anyways if you needed one right?
As far as response, some of my SECU16I inputs trigger voice announcements with HomeSeer and the announcement will start immediately after an input has changed (I tried to count, "thousand one, etc..., could not get past saying "thou" and the announcement started).
Are you using the terminating relay/resistor combination for your smoke alarms? If so I would check to see if they are compatible with the SECU16I (they should be).
Guy Lavoie is the Ocelot expert here but doesn't visit much these days
. I'm sure if you PM'd him a question though he would answer it. Applied Digital also has a pretty decent user forums for the Ocelot, Cmax and expansion modules you might want to look at.
EDIT: FYI Guy Lavoie is gone until July 28th.
The SECU16 has digital inputs and outputs, but only eight each. Sounds like you will need to have two of any expansion module combination so I would go with just the SECU16I first, then add the RLY8XA later on down the road. Of course your Datanab could be used for a Relay output anyways if you needed one right?
As far as response, some of my SECU16I inputs trigger voice announcements with HomeSeer and the announcement will start immediately after an input has changed (I tried to count, "thousand one, etc..., could not get past saying "thou" and the announcement started).
Are you using the terminating relay/resistor combination for your smoke alarms? If so I would check to see if they are compatible with the SECU16I (they should be).
Guy Lavoie is the Ocelot expert here but doesn't visit much these days
. I'm sure if you PM'd him a question though he would answer it. Applied Digital also has a pretty decent user forums for the Ocelot, Cmax and expansion modules you might want to look at.EDIT: FYI Guy Lavoie is gone until July 28th.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Also, are you going to use any sort of EOL resistor with your contact switches? I don't think you would get the same "supervision" as you would say via an Elk or security device which is made to look for a specific voltage "zone".
beelzerob
Senior Member
No, no EOL's, either on the window/doors or on the smoke alarms. The smokes are almost kinda gee-whiz....any indication to me is only secondary to the primary indication, which is all 10 of them in the house going off at the same time. Even the windows/doors are gee-whiz, mostly....security is one reason we moved here and away from that other horrid place.
doors are kinda important, though, mainly just because of our small kids...if one of them opens a door, I want to know about it.
So, in that regard, I could live with just doors on the inputs, which brings it back down to 5. Like I said, smokes are not going to change state so fast that the datanab would miss it...which is really the only concern.
As far as outputs, datanab does make a module that does relays and voltage outputs (the AiO8 and Ai8R13), but that's different than the Ai32 I have. Mine are all inputs, and that's good because with the windows and temps and current sensors, etc, I've just about used them all up.
I think the secu16 might be what I want then, because the 8 high speed inputs will be enough for my doors and a few smokes, and then I'll have relays to open and close garage doors at whim!
doors are kinda important, though, mainly just because of our small kids...if one of them opens a door, I want to know about it.
So, in that regard, I could live with just doors on the inputs, which brings it back down to 5. Like I said, smokes are not going to change state so fast that the datanab would miss it...which is really the only concern.
As far as outputs, datanab does make a module that does relays and voltage outputs (the AiO8 and Ai8R13), but that's different than the Ai32 I have. Mine are all inputs, and that's good because with the windows and temps and current sensors, etc, I've just about used them all up.
I think the secu16 might be what I want then, because the 8 high speed inputs will be enough for my doors and a few smokes, and then I'll have relays to open and close garage doors at whim!
I would have to disagree with you BSR, the Secu16I does read analog inputs, the only drawback is that you have to set 8 inputs at a time to read analog. You can't just set 1 or 2. So you can set the Secu16I to either 8 or 16 analog inputs.
The relays on the secu16 are pretty awfull but not useless, I use the internal relays to trigger larger external relays ( the elk relay boards are great ). For me getting a secu16 with 8 inputs and 8 relays works out in regards to price.
The notifications are instant, I have many door contacts and motion sensors connected to the Ocelot, and events and triggers in HS happen instantly.
StevenE
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, thanks for all the inputs, guys. I got a pretty decent deal on a used ocelot and secu16, so I'll have a new piece of hardware for the "not in use yet" pile!
Sounds like I'll probably put my doors on this thing, and maybe a few smokes. The doors need it bad...it's upwards of 10 seconds from the time I open the door until I hear the notification. I think that there's some inefficiencies in how the cqc driver polls the Datanab, I'll have to see about tweaking those. I think the delay could be able to get down to 3 seconds or so.
Sounds like I'll probably put my doors on this thing, and maybe a few smokes. The doors need it bad...it's upwards of 10 seconds from the time I open the door until I hear the notification. I think that there's some inefficiencies in how the cqc driver polls the Datanab, I'll have to see about tweaking those. I think the delay could be able to get down to 3 seconds or so.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, my ocelot and secu16 arrived. The good news is that I can now look for the secu16i and use that! The bad news is because the secu16 arrived broke.
I've got the refund for the secu16, so the end result is that I still got the ocelot for a good deal. But I still don't have the quick notification of switches that I want. So since I have this chance, I figured I'd look for the secu16i so I can put all the doors and the smokes on there.
So, what's the best place to pickup a secu16i? Ebay doesn't seem to be holding any of these, so they're either rare, or highly prized....neither of which translates into a good ebay price.
I've got the refund for the secu16, so the end result is that I still got the ocelot for a good deal. But I still don't have the quick notification of switches that I want. So since I have this chance, I figured I'd look for the secu16i so I can put all the doors and the smokes on there.
So, what's the best place to pickup a secu16i? Ebay doesn't seem to be holding any of these, so they're either rare, or highly prized....neither of which translates into a good ebay price.
