Connect Elk to ISY *AND* a s/w package at same time?

[IVB]

Anyone here try to connect the Elk to A) a firmware product like the ISY, *AND* B) a s/w package like CQC or HomeSeer at the same time?
 
It might be interesting to have a firmware product like the ISY do some of my Elk rules that would be a PITA if Windows fails. (I have a few toggle switches wired into an Elk zone, CQC monitors and turns zWave lights on/off. M$ has hung twice in 6 months resulting in no response, unfortunately both times was when the wife tried it).
 
I need to have CQC monitor the Elk for many other rules, not sure if Elk (or UL) permit two concurrent connections.

 

[giesen]

Yes Elk will permit multiple concurrent connections. That's how apps like eKeypad work while you also have an ISY connected to your Elk

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[wuench]

yep, using CQC and ISY connected to Elk.  No problem, also used to use eKeypad before my switch to Android....

 

[IVB]

damnit that sounds like another $100 i'll be spending.
 
Wuench, what rules do you put in the ISY vs CQC?
 
My wife reminded me that just Sunday, windows took a dump and I couldn't turn on the basement light. That royally sucked, as my phone was at 35% at the time and using it as a flashlight just about killed it. Stupid idiot prior owners, who has a room with only distant outlets and no light switch? (And given basement, wicked hard to install a new light switch)

 

[wuench]

Let me start by saying that this may not be the right way to do things...
 
I try to put all of my light rules in the ISY.  So there are ones that are even triggered directly from the Elk to ISY using the Elk module.   I don't have any light rules in the Elk itself. 
CQC calls the ISY to do lighting, and CQC calls Elk to do direct Elk stuff.    

 

[batwater]

My wife reminded me that just Sunday, windows took a dump and I couldn't turn on the basement light. That royally sucked, as my phone was at 35% at the time and using it as a flashlight just about killed it. Stupid idiot prior owners, who has a room with only distant outlets and no light switch? (And given basement, wicked hard to install a new light switch)

 
High WAF here, key point - lighting is not dependent on HA platform to function. Consider UPB for this, you can put a light module in (or a switch in a gang box as I have done for closets and garage) And locate a UPB switch at the other end.  As long as you have a box with a neutral in it you can put the switch in.  I have a pedestal enclosure from Simply Automated on each of our night stands that is plugged into the wall with an extension cord. The night stand light is plugged into the pedestal (via external extension plug)  The pedestal switch has an 8 button switch plate to control all of the lights in our bedroom (and some scenes like all lights on/off for the room and the entire house, and a dim setting ;-) )
 
You could do something similar as long as you can reach a grounded outlet you are good. It's a basement, doesn't have to be pretty. UPB switch (I use Simply Automated) does not have to control the load, it can simply trigger the wall unit at the other end to turn on / off and / or also control a load via the switch.  And applying the KISS principal, no controller in the middle to worry about going down, it's all handled by the switch(es).

 

[pete_c]

I do that today with my OmniPro 2 panel still with a Homeseer serial connection plus a new Homeseer network connection and do utilize multiple of the same time of controllers (easy with UPB difficult with Z-Wave).   The software mixes in with other controllers or analog devices that I cannot utilize with the HAI panel for higher level automation stuff.  IE: continue to mention here that the OP2 panel does the basic heartbeat of the home relating to lightning say for example.  Quickie stuff using the security pieces of the panel  (guessing the analogy would be the human body reflex that bypasses the brain to do stuff).  If the software abends; the house heartbeat continues to function fine; there are dependencies but the house does function fine without these dependences using the meat (OP2 panel). 
 
For work in the 1990's did similar combining the IBM AS400 and multiple PC's as terminals (moving away from serial terminals at the time) and functioning doing stuff manually taking data from the AS400.  The AS400 would function just fine without the PC at the time.  (IE: used this in the automotive industry car build and for banking account lookies and small to medium sized medical offices / hospitals and management and wintel DB stuff).  There were issues as the functions were originally done by hand and folks didn't like the automation and the removal of themselves from the process.  Geez manually controlled the automotive line remotely via modem from the comfort of my home or another location.  It was sort of a manual automation thing at the time.  Manual=computers.  The software worked by itself without any intervention.  Only I would throttle the speed manually which was sort of a PITA to do.  I didn't ever want to touch the keyboards during production times as one fat finger or software glitch would shut down production.  This too similar to continuous casting of steel in the 1970s (summer job in a steel mill).  Bad composition or grade of steel (lab computer stuff) or even a drop of water would shut down production for a 'bout a week or so.  Well a water drop would blow up the cement castings.  It was new old stuff at the time.   Recall sitting in a control tower that was always 50 F (always wore a sweater) and had to wear a fire suit of sorts to walk up to the tower.  The tower was sort of set up to live in if necessary.  This did turn me off to metallurgy (well and turned on my brother in law to metallurgy)

 

[IVB]

 
High WAF here, key point - lighting is not dependent on HA platform to function. Consider UPB for this, you can put a light module in (or a switch in a gang box as I have done for closets and garage) And locate a UPB switch at the other end.  As long as you have a box with a neutral in it you can put the switch in.  I have a pedestal enclosure from Simply Automated on each of our night stands that is plugged into the wall with an extension cord. The night stand light is plugged into the pedestal (via external extension plug)  The pedestal switch has an 8 button switch plate to control all of the lights in our bedroom (and some scenes like all lights on/off for the room and the entire house, and a dim setting ;-) )
 
You could do something similar as long as you can reach a grounded outlet you are good. It's a basement, doesn't have to be pretty. UPB switch (I use Simply Automated) does not have to control the load, it can simply trigger the wall unit at the other end to turn on / off and / or also control a load via the switch.  And applying the KISS principal, no controller in the middle to worry about going down, it's all handled by the switch(es).

True, but zWave single gang controllers are $100 for the same concept. This was free as I had a ton of toggles that I removed when I put in zwave. With a firmware based product like the ISY, the odds of controller failure are super low.

 

[pete_c]

Thing  / issue with my testing of Z-Wave versus UPB using similar concepts is the communications pieces of it with multiple controllers.
 
You can communicate to multiple controllers with one mothership. 
 
You can control multiple controllers with autonmous mother ships but then the controllers do not talk to each other; sort of a one way conversation where as with UPB any controller connected to any computer or not (say a wall console with 6 buttons on it). 
 
I am having this issue now with a Z-wave controller connected to the OP2 panel which controls the same network as Homeseer / Z-Wave controller.   Kind of sort a checks and balances thing too. 

 

[batwater]

IVB, on 18 Aug 2016 - 08:35, said:
True, but zWave single gang controllers are $100 for the same concept. This was free as I had a ton of toggles that I removed when I put in zwave. With a firmware based product like the ISY, the odds of controller failure are super low.

Understand the cost factor. Also agree that a firmware based controller is much less likely to puke than a PC based controller. Controller is still added layers of complexity. Point is that UPB does not require a controller, each light switch, wall module is potentially a controller, program once, done.

Not clear on the $100 single gang for same concept, are you saying a plug in light module for the light (far end of the basement) and a light switch (entry to basement) is that amount. I was taking it down to I have a light, I need a switch, they are not near each other so what are ways I do that reliably? UPB solution would require light switch and plug in module and could be done for right around $100.

To Pete's point, UPB also easily allows for multiple PLM (controller interface), you simply plug them in and hook them up to something to be controlled with. (you might have to add the house code to the PLM, fuzzy on that, but may not be required, been a while since I added a new PLM) BTW, UPB can be added directly to Elk, haven't done it, don't have an Elk, but it's supported.

Your OP was about Elk and ISY so dropping this thread of conversation as to not derail from original intent.

edit: I take it back, unless you picked up a pre-programmed kit, you would also need a PLM to program the devices. After programming PLM not required.

 

[IVB]

The next lighting technology I buy will be RA2. Sure its $10K, but i've probably wasted $5K over the years on failed experiments. If the ISY doesn't cut it, i'm done with consumer level solutions.

 

[pete_c]

Personally reading here everybody using the ISY is a happy camper. 
 
Having two or more firmware controllers goes in to the realm of excess baggage. 
 
You know what happens then.
 
I write the above and still do it with my stuff.  Well heck it's a hobby anyways.