contact sensors and switching off lights

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
ok guys,

Can you guide me please? I'm new to home automation. Right now, I'm preparing my wiring. I have drawn the plans for my home security. However, I have not planned anything yet on home automation. Assuming we have a motion sensor in a room where someone forgot to turn off the light, how can we take advantage of the motion sensor so that it sends a signal and the HA software turns the light off? And are those lights special? Or is it just a device that you will add to the wires for the lights?

For the wires, since I'll be using motion sensor, wire is 18/4. What wire is needed for HA software to work?

For my security wiring plans, you can look at my other thread:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=4327&st=30

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Neil
 
Most motions just have 4 wires - 2 for power and 2 for a contact. You can use the same 22/4 as used for other security sensors. For HA use you just sense the contact closure and act on it - depends on what you use for HA. In an M1 you would have the motion attached to a zone and you would simply make rules like:

WHENEVER MOTIONZONE is Violated
THEN HA action (control light, etc.)

These rules can be as simple or fancy as you desire. The light control or whatever is a totally separate issue. You obviously need to have a lighting control technology like Insteon, UPB or ZWave. Once you sence the motion you can essentially then do anything possible in the M1 rules - lighting, voice, HVAC, relays, etc.
 
Steve said:
Most motions just have 4 wires - 2 for power and 2 for a contact. You can use the same 22/4 as used for other security sensors. For HA use you just sense the contact closure and act on it - depends on what you use for HA. In an M1 you would have the motion attached to a zone and you would simply make rules like:

WHENEVER MOTIONZONE is Violated
THEN HA action (control light, etc.)

These rules can be as simple or fancy as you desire.
I'm sorry Steve, but did you say that I have to put another 22/4 run to that room? Do you also have a link that contains wiring tutorials for HA? I really need to be fast since my pre-drywall meeting is on June 12. I have to order the wires as soon as possible. :D

Thanks for the help. :)

Neli
 
No, you just need a 4 conductor wire, minimum 22/4. You can use 18/4 but it is overkill (mainly more expensive). In that other thread IVB used 18/4 because he had extra. I have 22/4 to smokes, etc and it is fine - but follow local codes.

Did you read the CT prewire guide?
 
Steve said:
No, you just need a 4 conductor wire, minimum 22/4. You can use 18/4 but it is overkill (mainly more expensive). In that other thread IVB used 18/4 because he had extra. I have 22/4 to smokes, etc and it is fine - but follow local codes.

Did you read the CT prewire guide?
Just want to make sure :) so, just one run of either 22/4 or 18/4 to a room would be enough for a motion sensor that is also controlled by the HA software?
 
v1rtu0s1ty said:
Just want to make sure :) so, just one run of either 22/4 or 18/4 to a room would be enough for a motion sensor that is also controlled by the HA software?
I imagine the wire will connect to your Elk in which case yes. Your software will simply get the zone status from the Elk.
 
Keypads, input expanders, output expanders, or any device that will be on the M1 data bus run CAT5.

Touchscreens run 2 CAT5 to future proof.

18/2 wire to speakers minimum

22/2 wire to door/window contacts, 2 wire smoke detectors

22/4 wire to motion detectors, 4 wire smoke detectors


If in doubt, run CAT5.
 
Steve said:
v1rtu0s1ty said:
Just want to make sure :) so, just one run of either 22/4 or 18/4 to a room would be enough for a motion sensor that is also controlled by the HA software?
I imagine the wire will connect to your Elk in which case yes. Your software will simply get the zone status from the Elk.
But what if I want the software to turn the light off automatically when there aren't any motions in the room for like 10 mins?
 
Spanky said:
Keypads, input expanders, output expanders, or any device that will be on the M1 data bus run CAT5.

Touchscreens run 2 CAT5 to future proof.

18/2 wire to speakers minimum

22/2 wire to door/window contacts, 2 wire smoke detectors

22/4 wire to motion detectors, 4 wire smoke detectors


If in doubt, run CAT5.
About touchscreens, where is this ideal to be mounted?

About smoke detectors, I got confused since you have two entries. Why did you list it twice? First was a 2 wire smoke detector then the latter is a 4 wire smoke detector. Are there any differences?

Can you please look at my thread on the link above. What can you say about my wiring?

Any comments will be a lot of help.

Thanks for the help guys! :)
 
But what if I want the software to turn the light off automatically when there aren't any motions in the room for like 10 mins?
Well, you keep saying software... What will be doing the control - I imagine (and recommend) the Elk. So, these things will be controlled by the rules.

I am doing this fast cause I gotta run so there may be a better way...

WHENEVER motionzone is Violated
THEN turn Output x on for 10 minutes RESTART if running

WHENEVER Ouput x turns off
AND Light xyz is on
THEN turn Light xyz off

I think something like that will work...
 
Steve said:
But what if I want the software to turn the light off automatically when there aren't any motions in the room for like 10 mins?
Well, you keep saying software... What will be doing the control - I imagine (and recommend) the Elk. So, these things will be controlled by the rules.

I am doing this fast cause I gotta run so there may be a better way...

WHENEVER motionzone is Violated
THEN turn Output x on for 10 minutes RESTART if running

WHENEVER Ouput x turns off
AND Light xyz is on
THEN turn Light xyz off

I think something like that will work...
I had an impression that the only way to control is via the HA software. That's the reason why I kept saying HA software. However, there needs to be a connectivity between the motion sensor and the lighting. That's what is missing in the equation.

Thanks, :)
 
The light can be controlled from a wall switch and/or the M1 control.

Using the Rules in the M1:

WHENEVER MotionDetector(Zn 1) becomes Violated
THEN Turn Light A1(LivingRoom) On For 10 minutes, Restart

You will use one of the lighting technologies: UPB, INSTEON, X10, ALC, ZWave,........
to control the lights.


Not clear on which area you are confused about.
 
Spanky said:
The light can be controlled from a wall switch and/or the M1 control.

Using the Rules in the M1:

WHENEVER MotionDetector(Zn 1) becomes Violated
THEN Turn Light A1(LivingRoom) On For 10 minutes, Restart

You will use one of the lighting technologies: UPB, INSTEON, X10, ALC, ZWave,........
to control the lights.


Not clear on which area you are confused about.
Aha, now I know what I was missing. I was not aware of the special devices you mentioned. :)
That means, I have to buy and install any of the devices(UPB, INSTEON, X10, ALC, ZWave). Do I need a separate wire for this controllers going to the M1 GOLD?
 
Steve said:
No, you just need a 4 conductor wire, minimum 22/4. You can use 18/4 but it is overkill (mainly more expensive). In that other thread IVB used 18/4 because he had extra. I have 22/4 to smokes, etc and it is fine - but follow local codes.

Did you read the CT prewire guide?
What about 22/4 wire for motion sensors? What is your call on that?
 
22/4 is fine for motions.

Yes you do need some wire (or typically a premade cable) to connect the M1 to your lighting interface. But those are usually mounted within the same area as the M1, so you generally don't need any in-wall wiring.
 
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