Control/monitor a motorized gate at the end of a long driveway

[az1324]

A fiber bridge should work in effect the same as any cat5 cable.  Yes you have plenty of bandwidth on a single fiber.  Yes you need a hub on one side to connect more devices.  Don't terminate fiber more than you have to.

 

would my Elk just see all the events and communication and deal with it
 
Do access boxes even come with Ethernet ports?

 
I think you are in for some customization here. 
 
 
I am somewhat skeptical the cost of fiber & copper will be less than solar & wifi.

 

[tmbrown97]

1) this is a good exercise in doing voltage drop calculations; unfortunately the lower the voltage, the more the drop - and you need to understand how much voltage you're hoping to send down the line.  You may need to figure out higher voltage then step it down at the gate - even I'd need to look at that more to see how I'd handle it.
3) Single fiber connection would be fine but run more than one strand anyway - they usually come with more.  I'd probably get an enclosure that could handle a switch and any other accessories out there, and I think I'd get a POE switch from netgear that has fiber uplink - then use that to power an ATA for the intercom and any POE cameras, then figure out the rest.    As said above, this is one continuous length - unnecessary splicing causes potential for problems.  The harder parts to integrate would be the inputs/outputs - it's obviously better if those are individual conductors in a multistrand cable, although if you can figure out a way to do it this way, that's less to run overhead and less possibility of lightening issues.
 
I'd have to think about those last couple parts a little more...  lets see what others come up with.

 

[Del91574]

1. Doubtful. Would need to know complete specs but at 1M, I'd be looking at 12 or 10 IMHO first before the calcs.
2. Depends on the gate and operator. You need to decide if you're going AC or DC for the motor. They make both.
3. Yes, but I'd pull a pair as a minimum best practice.
4. Single
5. You would need to split out the fiber...if you're going to run multiple items in various data toplologies, you're going to need a MM fiber and related hardware. If running TCP, single. IMHO, running the fiber once would have me pull a few then decide what I'm doing with them.
6. Depends on what sort of items you're putting out there and how it's getting back there. In the case of the M1, I've been on the phone with Brad and Amy specifically talking about the M1 and FOC's for the bus and there is a concern regarding latency...I want to say the number was 100 ms off the top of my head. IMHO, run the pairs back in copper for what you want the M1 to monitor or control, oversizing as necessary for VD and resistance. Isolate as practically as possible...unless you plan on converting items to another topology then back at the panel (more cost).
 
I'd just do fiber for net and then pull multi conductor aerial for the LV and surge before it enters each enclosure.

 

[apostolakisl]

I know you have trees, but 1000 feet isn't that far and there is a good chance you can do wireless with the right equipment for less cost and hassle than all the fiber and its connections and whatnot.  You really can't do fiber as a diy person without a descent investment in the tools and some learning.  
 
16 guage wire for 1000 feet is going to have a big voltage drop if you are drawing much current.  It would probably be fine to run the electronics (cameras and comm), but the gate motor probably will drop the voltage too low to properly function.  A solution would be to use a battery to power the gate and a trickle charger to keep it charged.

 

[Del91574]

1000' of 16 AWG is only going to have a resistance of less than 5 ohms...slightly more with splices and similar, so as stated, oversizing the conductors would be needed, but not by an obscene amount.
 
The variable is what the total current draw at the end of the run is and if the initial supply puts out a higher voltage than listed (ie: 12VDC listed pushing 13.5 out the unit).
 
Electronics start to really do strange things if the voltage isn't kept within spec....Elk does very odd things if they drop to 12VDC or lower and a 20% loss is usually the cap that really should be avoided at all costs, but the real world should be 15% as a rule of thumb.
 
While more painful and having the recurring charge, I'd look into putting a meter at the gate...it simplifies the whole setup significantly.

 

[apostolakisl]

You might look at what exists in rs485.  1000 feet of wire on rs485 is no problem.  The data speed on rs485 is too slow for video or audio, but all the other functions can happen.  Add to that a coax wire and you can run video and audio the old fashioned analog route.  
 
I just googled rs485 gate control and this popped up http://atb2b.en.alibaba.com/product/946807705-210689581/RS232_RS485_gsm_remote_control_system_gsm_remote_gate_control.html  I just looked at it quick, it looks like GSM is the usual route for control but it has an rs485 interface as well.
 
 
EDIT:
 
This website has a nice calculator for voltage drop.  http://www.southwire.com/support/voltage-drop-calculator.htm  You would need to know the amp draw of all the stuff you are using and how much voltage loss is acceptable.  
 
And here is a better gate control which seems to fit the bill out of the box.  http://www.gatedepot.com/product/doorking-1513-rs-485-keypads/
 
combine that with a coax wire for audio/video and you have what should be a reliable, simple, low cost system that won't have you banging your head against the wall.

 

[tmbrown97]

http://www.doorking.com/telephone-entry/accessories/wireless-1812.php
 
May need to do a couple things to boost the wireless performance if it's on the cusp, but looks good on the surface.

 

[az1324]

http://www.doorking.com/telephone-entry/accessories/wireless-1812.php
 
May need to do a couple things to boost the wireless performance if it's on the cusp, but looks good on the surface.

 
Until you see that just the wireless part is 1k

 

[tmbrown97]

Ouch - but compared to running wires for gate, intercom, and video, who knows...

 

[az1324]

I still say this is worth considering:
 
Ubiquiti Bullet x2 = $160
TP-Link Parabolic Antenna x2 = $100
50W Solar Panel = $150
Battery Charge Controller = $50
Battery = $100

 

[riverhawk]

I still say this is worth considering:
 
Ubiquiti Bullet x2 = $160
TP-Link Parabolic Antenna x2 = $100
50W Solar Panel = $150
Battery Charge Controller = $50
Battery = $100

 
Do you think solar can power the access station, an IP camera(I'd be ok with only recording when motion is detected), the Bullet, and gate opening/closing? I'm in the NorthEast if that makes a big difference.

 

[az1324]

Well the key would be power management so that the only thing receiving constant power would be the motion detector and when motion was detected it would power up the other equipment.

 

[Del91574]

You need to do the calcs for total and worst case draw, and then derate the batteries for worst case scenario as far as temperature goes. Most battery manufacturers provide a chart with temperatures and % to derate.
 
We're not going to be talking about a couple of small SLA's to feed the motor in this case. The panel may be able to trickle charge, but to really supply the usage a gate will likely see, I think you're heading into the wrong directlon.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'd have to hear from someone who's done this in practice, because I've priced out doing solar systems for clients to run a camera and a backhaul radio, and those systems are generally in the $2K range.  You need to account for several days of inclement weather; the rule of thumb I've seen is to account for up to 3 days without sun, and being able to recharge everything in about 6 hours.  That takes more than a single 50W panel, and may take more than a regular old car battery.
 
I use the Ubiquiti radios quite a bit - and if everything was built and paved and that was all that's left, I'd probably suggest that (in the 900mhz range) but this is the early stage of construction from the sounds of things, so the safest possible route with the least amount of maintenance and headaches is to run whatever gauge copper your calcs come up with to power your electronics and account for voltage drop (A quick and dirty calc said that at that distance, running 2A over 12g copper, you'd need to pump in 19.5 volts to get about 13 at the gate.  Having a handful of copper pairs for gate intercom, sensors and triggers is the most reliable method, and having fiber for ethernet would take care of cameras - if it's just a cam and no other IP devices, a media converter straight to a camera would be cheap and easy.
 
You may kick yourself over the cost today, but that's the only way you'll never have to revisit this again.  I'd still probably look at using a battery at the gate to power the devices and have the charging source coming over the copper vs. having to supply all peak power required - but without researching it, I'm not sure how easy that'd be.  I'd have a real hard time paying for the second meter.
 
If you DONT go this route, then I'm all for getting creative for workarounds and have lots of ideas, but that'd be a last resort.

 

[apostolakisl]

What is your ground made of?  You know for $500 (or even less) you can rent a big ass sit down trencher and plow out 2000 feet in about 5000 seconds (or 1.5 hours).  Even in the limestone soil I've got it still makes descent time.
 
I would bury 12gauge (or put on the pole if you want to try to get away with it) copper and run 120vac to the gate.  You'll need a lot less amps at 120v to do what you need and it will give you lots of options.  Plus you may want to put some drive lights, decorative spots, Christmas lights, or who knows what out there.
 
You can still go wifi using the Ubiquiti or whatever brand if you want full bandwidth comm and don't want to deal with trying to do fiber as an amateur.  Or go with RS 485 for the gate control and use analog for voice/video.