Design Philosophy: Traditional or IP-based

A typical do-it-all system might have A/V signal distribution in the closet and RCA cables and speaker wire running up to the TVs and speakers. Security cameras run analog signals down to the closet and into the multiplexers. IR blasters allow control from each room. Hardwired lighting. So far, no computer is involved.

Now consider the other extreme. PC control of the lighting (It might still be hard wired or maybe Z-Wave). No analog cable runs. Every drop is Cat 5E. Security cams are IP-based. Media server goes to an HTPC at every screen. Even the ceiling speakers are IP-based (polk makes some nice ones for a measly $3k a pair).

Does anyone have an opinion on where the sweet spot is along this spectrum?

I really like the idea IP-cameras, especially with PoE. IP speakers for whole house audio seems to add huge cost w/o benefit.

Distributing video is a question. Do not distribute and have the usual coax run to a cable box (I still have to physically put the netflix movie in the player and why go to the basement to do it?). Distribute everything via IP to HTPCs/media extenders? Distribute via Coax to HTPCs? Distribute analog (or HDMI) straight to the TV? Considerations are integration the security cameras with entertainment video (will a media extender show the sec cams?) and provisioning for HD content.

The new house is almost framed and I have to do some hard thinking about what to drop. I plan on having my installer do terminated drops and stick speakers in the ceilings then I'll connect it all together at my leisure. Thanks for any thoughts.

-- Art
 
A typical do-it-all system might have A/V signal distribution in the closet and RCA cables and speaker wire running up to the TVs and speakers. Security cameras run analog signals down to the closet and into the multiplexers. IR blasters allow control from each room. Hardwired lighting. So far, no computer is involved.

Now consider the other extreme. PC control of the lighting (It might still be hard wired or maybe Z-Wave). No analog cable runs. Every drop is Cat 5E. Security cams are IP-based. Media server goes to an HTPC at every screen. Even the ceiling speakers are IP-based (polk makes some nice ones for a measly $3k a pair).

Does anyone have an opinion on where the sweet spot is along this spectrum?

I really like the idea IP-cameras, especially with PoE. IP speakers for whole house audio seems to add huge cost w/o benefit.

Distributing video is a question. Do not distribute and have the usual coax run to a cable box (I still have to physically put the netflix movie in the player and why go to the basement to do it?). Distribute everything via IP to HTPCs/media extenders? Distribute via Coax to HTPCs? Distribute analog (or HDMI) straight to the TV? Considerations are integration the security cameras with entertainment video (will a media extender show the sec cams?) and provisioning for HD content.

The new house is almost framed and I have to do some hard thinking about what to drop. I plan on having my installer do terminated drops and stick speakers in the ceilings then I'll connect it all together at my leisure. Thanks for any thoughts.

-- Art

All IP? Someday, but not today. More items are available that way today, but its going to limit you. You need to install networking and analog cable.
 
I will share my design philosophy (which nobody on this forum agrees with) so you have something to compare and contrast to:

IP as the master communications backbone makes a lot of sense and I am moving more and more to that paradigm. I currently have a number of devices connected to my network that are live 24/7... Music server and 14 Squeezebox music players, primary automation server, file server (also acts as secondary automation server), main PC, 2 DVRs, Stargate, Panasonic Voicemail system, printer, etc. I'm thinking of adding an Elk panel, some sort of touch screens, and some IP cameras.

Music distribution via IP has been a perfect solution. I use inexpensive local systems that match the styling of my squeezeboxes and provide local amp, tuner, and CD. I like having a local display in each room that shows track and artist info and also displays HA messages. (When idle they display time and weather forecast). I DO NOT like systems that distribute music without providing local displays. I DO NOT like systems that use a touch screen or other expensive interface in a fixed location. (With the squeezeboxes I can see a display from anywhere in a room and have as many cheap remotes as required to ensure control is always within easy reach).

Distributed video has very little value for the very reason you note in your NetFlix example. I modulate a couple of channels using standard cable so I can start kids videos to show on remote TVs but that is about the only use I have found. Duplicating playbck equipment in each location is cheaper than distributing hi-def signals and is easier to use besides.

Controlling a media system via a Home Automation controller has very little value for the same reason. You have to be in the room with the screen to watch it and if you are in the room, you will get a better user experience from a well programmed universal remote than you will from a complex HA interface arrangement.

There is definitely no value in moving movies to a hard drive server (unless you place a very low value on your time). It is more practical to use a DVD changer (try to get one that will play both sides of a disc). If you mostly get your movies from NetFlix you may not even need a changer.

Do not put a PC in the same room as audio or video equipment unless it is a fanless model.

IP cameras are more expensive than hard wired ones but once you have the camera on your network you have a lot more options for using it. (Direct view from PC, serve via Home Automation server, view on Elk or similiar touch screens, etc.) I think IP is a natural choice for cameras if you want the most options for using the feed.

Do not do anything recessed or flush mounted unless it uses an industry standard back box or hole size. Anything electronic has a very short life span compared to other fixtures in your house so it does not make sense to make a custom hole for something that will have to be replaced in a few years. If you don't think you will get 10 years out of it, use a surface mount or tabletop version.

I tend to favor devices with a browser interface that can be accessed from any machine on my network.

I use IP based virtual KVMs and serial to IP adapters with good success.

I avoid all wi-fi networking. If you look on the forums for any networked product you will find the majority of issues are wi-fi related. Wired networks are reliable. Wired networks are much faster. Stick with wired networks. (and use POE whenever possible).
 
I appreciate your thoughts. They validate my preconcieved views, pretty much.

>> I use inexpensive local systems that match the styling of my squeezeboxes and provide local amp, tuner, and CD. I like having a local display in each room that shows track and artist info and also displays HA messages. (When idle they display time and weather forecast).

Squeezeboxes are the greatest thing since sliced bread! Fun for geeks and yet have a huge wife satisfaction factor (WSF - an under considered issue with HA). I have two currently. I would like music in more rooms am reluctant to take up counter real estate in bathrooms, etc. What "systems that match the styling of my squeezeboxes" do you use?

>> Distributed video has very little value for the very reason you note in your NetFlix example...Duplicating playbck equipment in each location is cheaper than distributing hi-def signals and is easier to use besides.

DVD players are cheap, certainly. TIVO's are not. Cable boxes are rented. Is leveraging them though central distribution worthwhile? Clutter reduction also counts for something. Bringing up centrally served family photos on the family room TV is a definite good, as is security cam access. I lean towards your view but can see the other side. Pulling wire to the closet during new construction is cheap enough so I think I should over-wire and use conduit to make future fishing easy, eh?

>> you will get a better user experience from a well programmed universal remote than you will from a complex HA interface arrangement.

Agreed (see comment about WSF above).

>> I tend to favor devices with a browser interface that can be accessed from any machine on my network.

I strongly agree with this also. The problem is so much HA software, including browser interfaces, are tied to Windows and/or .NET. Grrr. I want to use thin clients like the Nokia N800 and not expensive, bloated UMPCs.

>> There is definitely no value in moving movies to a hard drive server (unless you place a very low value on your time).

Ha! Try ripping vinyl record albums for a great way to burn valuable hours of your life on earth. My new rule is: buy the dang CD whenever possible. I look forward to using a snapshot scanning service for old photos but I doubt the economics would make a vinyl ripping service work.

Thanks again for your thoughtful remarks.
 
IP based systems are gaining more traction and becoming more widely available. There are still technology holes that haven't been "bridged" by IP yet, and many of the IP based systems that are available are still very expensive compared to mature non-ip devices.

I'm starting to work with NetStreams and their DigiLinx products have some great potential, but cost significantly more than similar non-ip systems for audio & video distribution. Where they really shine is the ease of scalability for larger systems... for smaller systems it's just notn cost justifiable yet. NetSteams has HD (1080i) video distribution over IP, but it requires 1GB switching infrastructure and the per zone cost will usually exceed that of the display device.

I myself am looking forward to the day of "IP Everywhere"... it's just not reality yet.

Cheers,
Paul
 
There is definitely no value in moving movies to a hard drive server (unless you place a very low value on your time). It is more practical to use a DVD changer (try to get one that will play both sides of a disc). If you mostly get your movies from NetFlix you may not even need a changer.

I agree with this for an existing collection, but not for my use. I have 2 bookshelves loaded with DVDs I own that I rarely watch. I agree that ripping those to my media server would be a waste of time and space. However, when I rent a movie, I rip the disc to my media server (which only takes 10 mins or so and takes place while I'm working anyway, so it's not a time waste at all). I then have the ability to watch the movie 2 days or 2 weeks from now, then delete it, and I don't have to worry about late fees. I can also watch the movie from my theater room, the kitchen, my office, or the master bedroom without having to find the disc.

Do not put a PC in the same room as audio or video equipment unless it is a fanless model.

I agree that the PC has to be quiet and unobtrusive, but not necessarily fanless. I use a full-size equipment style HTPC in my theater room, but it's located in a closet with the rest of my home theater equipment, so noise isn't an issue. My projector puts out more noise that my closet. I also have a Mac Mini running Vista located under the countertop in my kitchen. At that location, minimizing heat and noise was critical. I also have an ASUS Pundit-based PC located in my master bedroom. It's fairly quiet, fairly small, and not obtrusive to us at all. It's about the size of a cable box.

DVD players are cheap, certainly. TIVO's are not. Cable boxes are rented. Is leveraging them though central distribution worthwhile? Clutter reduction also counts for something. Bringing up centrally served family photos on the family room TV is a definite good, as is security cam access.

I don't distribute video in my house, but I can see why some people do it. For me, I'd rather go with a local PC in every main viewing area. I run Vista Media Center, and my data is stored on a central server in my basement. At every location, this gives me:

- DVD playback via disk
- DVD playback via media server
- MP3, Internet Radio & FM music playback
- live/recorded standard definition cable TV
- live/recorded HD unencrypted cable TV
- pre-recorded standard def & HD cable stored on a central media server
- photo playback
- home video playback
- ..plus tons of other Media Center features

The only things I'd like to add are encrypted HD playback and HD-DVD playback, which are currently only available in my theater room where I have an actual cable/DVR box and HD-DVD playback device.

I do use tradional analog-based music distribution via a Russound CAV66 and one of their dual AM/FM tuner boxes. However, MP3 & internet radio playback and control through my Russound is PC-based.
 
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