Detached garage grounding

[apostolakisl]

I need to go back and read through this thread, but I can say that I want a speaker in my detached workshop - not solely for alarm conditions, but also for voice announcements (via Elk chime). For example, if my family is not home and I go out to the shop to do some work, I could get a notification when the front door or garage door is opened, alerting me that someone is home.
 
In my case, my detached building is primarily a wood shop. I've been using my router table or table saw before and had my wife enter the door behind me... and it scare the crap out of me when I look up and see her there. Depending on volume levels (my table saw is fairly quite), I may be able to hear the chime from the local shop door as well (a strobe could be useful for this too if speaker volume is an issue). I'm planning to be using the TWA for this speaker which gives me some added volume control with the built in pots.

 
You can also get all those notifications using mykeypad free version on your smartphone.

 

[drvnbysound]

You can also get all those notifications using mykeypad free version on your smartphone.

 
You assume my smartphone is an Android, and not running the latest OS.

 

[mikefamig]

You can also get all those notifications using mykeypad free version on your smartphone.

I searched mykeypad at the apple store and it costs $29 and I didn't see a free version. How does it work? Does it send you a text? Audible alert?
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

Not sure if this is revelant for this specific thread.
 
In the late 70's-late 90's I had a detached garage.  It was a bit automated at the time with an alarm panel with TTS and X10.  It was very primitive.  One of the things that I did with the home is build a new garage, shed and driveway.   I extended the electric, gas, LV, CCTV, TV cable and water to the garage.  At the time the LV was for the alarm, telephone, keypad and speaker.  I buried chases and outdoor cabling next to the new driveway.  I did configure an earth ground at the garage.  I used shielded multi wire outdoor cabling that Honeywell utilized at the time for industrial controls et al type of stuff.  I had insulated the garage and put natural gas heat in it.  I could almost live in the garage at the time.  I did have one lightning strike (in around 30 years) that I assume came from the telephone line and took out one computer's serial ports and one network hub.  Didn't take out the X10 PIM at the time.  Wiring at the time utilized whatever standards existed and I really other than once never had an issue.

 

[apostolakisl]

Agreed and forums like this are good or hashing out ideas and trying to understand it from different angles.
 
The topic of conversation here has been primarily concerning protecting equipment from lightning but of course the grounding system is there to protect from bodily harm.
 
I feel that I have a fairly good understanding of how having a grid of ground wires and cabinets protects us from electrocution by conducting stray current to ground via that grid but lightning strike - not so much.
 
Mike.
 
Thanks for the link.

 
Grounding is more about protecting the structure then it is about protecting people from electrocution.  In fact, good grounding has been a necessary ingredient in many electrocutions and a whole boat load of injury/shock events.  GFI is how you protect people.  Now, I grant you, GFI only works when you first have good grounding. 

 

[apostolakisl]

I searched mykeypad at the apple store and it costs $29 and I didn't see a free version. How does it work? Does it send you a text? Audible alert?
 
Mike.

 
Don't know about apple, android has 2 versions, free and paid.  I have the paid version which adds all the control of tasks and lighting and stuff.  The free version gives you control of your keypads.  It also has the "chime" mode where it makes a little chime every time a zone opens, and it displays a notification including the name of the zone.
 
Now if you don't have Android, and maybe it doesn't work on the 5.xx android (dont' know, I'm still running 4.4.2) you could always just buy an inexpensive android tablet and mount it to the wall and have pretty much full control of your Elk along with all notifications.  You would need wifi.  That brings us back to how to get inernet out there, and that is quite easily done using fiber and avoiding any copper connection between the buildings.

 

[drvnbysound]

I searched mykeypad at the apple store and it costs $29 and I didn't see a free version. How does it work? Does it send you a text? Audible alert?
 
Mike.

 
I was only familiar with the myKeypad for Android (here), which was last updated Jul 8, 2012. It was the original app that I used when I was on the Android platform and I have since referred a few people to it. Having said that, when users upgraded their Android OS to Lollipop, it basically broke the app and was no longer able to be used. Since there has been no update since 2012, the issue has yet to be resolved and is likely not going to work on any late model Android phone. I now refer Android users to M1 Touch Pro (here).
 
Mike, the last time myKeypad for Apple (here) was updated was Jun 19, 2014. Not as bad as the former, but not great either. My Apple app of choice for Elk control is eKeypad which comes in multiple flavors (M1 version here), which was last updated Oct 9, 2015. I actually use the Pro version (here).
 
Honestly, eKeypad may have the notifications (I haven't bothered to look), but it's still just not the solution for me. I have my phone on vibrate 99% of the time and in my pocket, it would be unlikely that I feel that when working as I mentioned above. Even if I were to feel the "notification", I'd have no idea if it was a text, email, Facebook notification, or my wife coming in the door...

 

[mikefamig]

Grounding is more about protecting the structure then it is about protecting people from electrocution.  In fact, good grounding has been a necessary ingredient in many electrocutions and a whole boat load of injury/shock events.  GFI is how you protect people.  Now, I grant you, GFI only works when you first have good grounding. 

I stand corrected......circuit breakers save equipment and GFI saves lives.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

I was only familiar with the myKeypad for Android (here), which was last updated Jul 8, 2012. It was the original app that I used when I was on the Android platform and I have since referred a few people to it. Having said that, when users upgraded their Android OS to Lollipop, it basically broke the app and was no longer able to be used. Since there has been no update since 2012, the issue has yet to be resolved and is likely not going to work on any late model Android phone. I now refer Android users to M1 Touch Pro (here).
 
Mike, the last time myKeypad for Apple (here) was updated was Jun 19, 2014. Not as bad as the former, but not great either. My Apple app of choice for Elk control is eKeypad which comes in multiple flavors (M1 version here), which was last updated Oct 9, 2015. I actually use the Pro version (here).
 
Honestly, eKeypad may have the notifications (I haven't bothered to look), but it's still just not the solution for me. I have my phone on vibrate 99% of the time and in my pocket, it would be unlikely that I feel that when working as I mentioned above. Even if I were to feel the "notification", I'd have no idea if it was a text, email, Facebook notification, or my wife coming in the door...

 
To the best of my knowledge both ekeypad and mykepad do not notify the user of zone changes unless they cause an alarm. Elk audio output as you know will verbally report all zone changes if you want it to.

 

[drvnbysound]

I know with the Android myKeypad, you could get notifications from zone changes. This was enabled for all zones by default, and within the first 15 minutes of configuration all users would ask me how to turn it off... because they would get a notification every time they walked in front of their motion detector

 

[rsw686]

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to use all shielded cable for the low voltage and ground one end. This is easy enough to do for the security cable as I can attach it to the ground terminal on the OmniPro panel, which connects to the Elk transfer ground. For the Cat5e that I'm using for the audio balun it looks like the best solution is to use Ubiquiti tough connectors with the ground wire attached. Originally I was going to terminate all Cat5e runs to a patch panel, however shielded pass through patch panels are expensive. Additionally they rely on the network switch attaching the shield to ground.

 

[mikefamig]

I know with the Android myKeypad, you could get notifications from zone changes. This was enabled for all zones by default, and within the first 15 minutes of configuration all users would ask me how to turn it off... because they would get a notification every time they walked in front of their motion detector

 
that's cool, I have IOS ekeypad and if it exists I am not aware of it. I really think that it would be annoying though to hear all zone changes from my phone anyways. Even the Elk is usually set to silent or beep and I turn on the chimes at the keypad when I want to hear them.
 
Mike.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

It would be the case that after I post all that information about the apps and last update date, eKeypad would release another update today...

 

[apostolakisl]

To the best of my knowledge both ekeypad and mykepad do not notify the user of zone changes unless they cause an alarm. Elk audio output as you know will verbally report all zone changes if you want it to.

 
Mykeypad notifies me every time a zone opens.  It chirps, scrolls the name of the zone across the top notification area, then it leaves an icon in the notification after the scroll where you can do a pull down and see a list of recent zone opens.  The app does have to be running in the background for this to work.
 
And as mentioned, I typically turn it off since I do get notification every time the motion detector picks up.  I would imagine that there would be a way around that.  Maybe a rule that bypasses your motions when not armed?  I don't know, I didn't really care to try.

 

[drvnbysound]

Mykeypad notifies me every time a zone opens.  It chirps, scrolls the name of the zone across the top notification area, then it leaves an icon in the notification after the scroll where you can do a pull down and see a list of recent zone opens.  The app does have to be running in the background for this to work.
 
And as mentioned, I typically turn it off since I do get notification every time the motion detector picks up.  I would imagine that there would be a way around that.  Maybe a rule that bypasses your motions when not armed?  I don't know, I didn't really care to try.

 
IIRC in myKeypad, there is an option to turn notifications on/off for each zone.