Difference between HAI "LED/CFL" Dimmer and non-LED/CFL?

[tmbrown97]

Keep in mind guys, that just because you use HAI, you're not stuck with HAI dimmers for UPB.  Even going with the HLC protocol, this can be one with other manufacturer's switches, including the Simply Automated ones which work great.  I have 60+ of them with all varieties of LED bulbs numbering from just a single to up to 9 bulbs per switch.  I've seen very few bulbs that have issues; the majority I've tested from Cree, Utilitech, Phillips, Sylvania - all seem fine; there was a 3-pack from Costco that was bad, but that's it.  They also all dim pretty well too.
 
As far as bulbs, I know a lot of people moved away from the cold cathode bulbs because they still contain mercury requiring careful disposal, and there have actually been recent studies about CFL's putting out dangerous levels of UV radiation among other cancer risks.  Even before these recent studies, I recall a few places announcing specific plans to stop carrying Cold Cathode bulbs though I never dug into why at the time.
 
So far, in the range of very affordable bulbs, the Home Depot Cree's seem to take the cake - they are very natural looking in the fixtures, work inside enclosed fixtures (many are not approved for wet or enclosed!) and are quite affordable - a lot of areas are subsidizing the cost... the 40W warm white one just dropped under $5/bulb at my local Home Depot; and the TrueWhite high CRI bulbs are $8/$10 for 40W/60W equivs (for me the 40W's were brighter than the 60W incandescents they replaced).  They're the best color I've seen in energy-efficient bulbs so far.

 

[jmorris644]

... the 40W warm white one just dropped under $5/bulb at my local Home Depot; and the TrueWhite high CRI bulbs are $8/$10 for 40W/60W equivs (for me the 40W's were brighter than the 60W incandescents they replaced).  They're the best color I've seen in energy-efficient bulbs so far.

 
It seems that the lower priced Crees according to the Home Depot web site are non-dimmable. The dimmable ones are still in the upper $teens.
 
Joe

 

[tmbrown97]

It seems that the lower priced Crees according to the Home Depot web site are non-dimmable. The dimmable ones are still in the upper $teens.
 
Joe

Not sure what you saw that indicated that, but pretty much all the ones on this page: http://www.homedepot.com/cree in that blue packaging are dimmable. 

 

[BLH]

 I have the following Cree Bulbs. From Home Depot.
A19, 9.5 watt, 2700K, 60 watt replacement.
A19, 9.0 watt, 5000K, 60 watt replacement.
A19, 6.0 watt, 2700K, 40 watt replacement.
All of them dim nicely. Even on some of my Insteon modules, but not a X10 or Intermatic ZWave two wire dimmer module.
I have not tried any of the TW True White A19 versions of the Cree bulbs.

 

[jmorris644]

Not sure what you saw that indicated that, but pretty much all the ones on this page: http://www.homedepot.com/cree in that blue packaging are dimmable. 

I wonder if the results are regionally priced. 3 bulbs are priced $9-$13. The rest are $20 and above. Up to over $100.

I had assumed that when some of the high level descriptions said Dimmable and some did not (the lower priced ones) that they were not Dimmable. Zooming in on the package confirmed they they were in fact Dimmable.

 

[BLH]

I have also seen price differences. When I search and my local store is known to the search.
I believe it was purchase on line and pick up at store. The ship to my home was higher.
It could be my power company has a incentive on it.

 

[tmbrown97]

A bunch of us on the CT Chat have compared prices, and they're definitely regional; even where I'm at, within 10 miles I can enter the jurisdiction of 3 different power companies, and of the 3 cities the pricing will be different.  We've compared with people in CT, PA, WA, CA, and a few other places and the prices to vary.
 
Short answer - the 40W bulbs come in a <$10 version in soft white or cool white - the 60W equivs are about $13 before subsidies and also come in both flavors.  Then they have the TW bulbs which are slightly less efficient but present the truest colors in an LED - they are about $17-$20 but those qualify for a special california incentive that takes $10/bulb off; then they have the BR replacements which I haven't picked up yet but need to soon.  All are dimmable, suitable for damp locations, and suitable for fully enclosed fixtures.  They're generally accepted as the best all around LED A19 replacement out right now that's suitable for any place an incandescent would go.
 
I probably care more than most because I have some of the most ridiculous power rates in the country...

 

[MillardS]

All Simply Automated Dimmers will dim loads as low as 1 watt (e.g. neon bulb), which is ideal for dimming LED and fluorescent fixtures.  That is an important fact.  Very few 'dimmers' can dim loads, especially LEDs, with such a low wattage.
 
As many have experienced, dimming LEDs to a nice or desired level is not really easy.  You can stand at the switch for almost a minute dimming up, then down, and back up again to get it just right. Some will see that the LED fixture will dim down to a level lower than it will be able to dim up to (e.g. fixture can dim down to 15% but when dimming up it lights/starts at 18%).  And, the LED will flicker in this low range (e.g. 10% to 20%, depending on the bulb).
 
We frequently recommend using the US2-40 dimmer switch that has both a rocker and buttons, e.g. the single rocker faceplate with 4-buttons ZS25O.  This allows the user to control the light level with the rocker, and the 4-buttons can be set at desired levels (e.g. 5%, 25%, 50%, 80%). The point is you don't have to waste time dimming up and down to the desired level every time you want to dim the lights.
 
With that said, the flickering around the turn on/off point is a function of the tiny switching power supply in each bulb.  We've seen as much as 10% variation in the on/off dim levels of the same bulb (i.e. same manufacturer and model number).  For example, dimming a series of canned (say 6) LED fixtures; half turn on/off at the same dim level where the other half come on or go off before or after the others.  
 
LED fixtures are getting better and better every day.  The best thing to do is buy 1 and test it.  CostCo has dimmable bulbs that will go down to 1% with the standard Simply Automated dimmers.  Home Depot has had some good ones that we've seen go down to 5-10%.
 
Hope that helps!


 
     

 

[ano]

I think the aspect of LED and CFL bulbs that everyone is ignoring, including UPB switch manufacturers, is providing a translation table that can be modified for each bulb.  Dimmers go their marry way from 5% to 10% to 15% to 20% .... to 100%.  The problem is the light output from bulbs does not vary perfectly linerally, and varies from one bulb type to the next.  When I set a bulb to 50%, I expect 50% of the light out, but depending on the bulb it might be 2% of light or 50% of light or 90% of light. I have a receiver that has a microphone that is used to adjust the equalizer for a flat room response.  Why can't a dimmer also have a photo sensor so it can learn how the bulb operates and adjust accordingly.  You'd only need to do this setup procedure one unless you changed the bulb. When I set the bulb to 10% I get 10% light. At 50% i get 50% light, etc.