Dimmer Switches - What do I need?

[Bzncrewjr]

So I'm a total newb to this HA stuff.  I'm comfortable with wiring and programming.  It's the hardware I'm unsure of.
 
I bought an Omni Pro controller, PC Access for dealers (should be here next week).
 
What do I need to use dimmer switches?  The electrician is installing all switches and fixtures and I'd like to give him some dimmers to install for me.
We have some circuits with multiple switches.  3/4 way.
 
Can I mix switches/dimmers from different manufacturers/protocols?
 
Also:  Specs say it supports
Vizia RF Z-Wave
Does this mean ALL Z-Wave or just Vizia RF Z-Wave?
 
 
I know this is a can of worms, but if you had to do it again what protocol would you use?
UPB, Z-Wave.....?
 
 
--Russ
 

 

[drvnbysound]

I'll answer in reverse of how you asked... with regard to your last question, do you plan to stick with lighting only, or do you want to utilize other devices as well (e.g. thermostat, deadbolts, etc)?
 
I went Zwave because it also allowed me to have both of the above, a communicating thermostat and deadbolt that both tied into my HA system. The only other single communicating system that you can get that from today is Zigbee and from what I've seen there is still not a lot of support there (e.g. limited manufacturers and devices, as well as HA system support). If I wanted to stay with lighting only, I'd certainly give UPB a run and see how I liked it. I am thinking about doing so in my next home and utilizing a thermostat that is able to be hard wired, and possibly an electronic door strike; typically not ideal for retrofit installations.
 
Technically, you CAN mix and match Zwave devices. I have this now. However, some people have run into issues, so I'll state that it's not ideal. For the most part, I certainly prefer Leviton Zwave devices as they are the only ones to report status feedback if the switch/dimmer is manually used. With other devices your HA system will be hard pressed to know the device status with any certainty. Sure, you can get into polling, but that just creates a lot of network traffic and also causes issues.
 
If you go with Leviton and have loads that are wired in a 3-way configuration, you will need to check into this carefully. You don't just put a Zwave device on both sides of the 3-way wiring; there are specific switches made for this. All of that information is on the Leviton website... and you kinda have to dig to find it.

 

[cobra]

Good advice...  also, it's worth looking at some dimmers and seeing what you like.  There are really a limited set of dimmer designs and you may find that the ZWave selection doesn't fit your tastes.  Same with UPB.  If you don't care about the design, appearance, and or amount of feedback the switches show you, then I'd pick UPB for switches and then use whatever other interface you want for other devices (nothing stops you from using multiple types of interfaces, especially with something like the Omni.)  UPB is pretty bulletproof and seems to have the least number of issues with Omni systems (in my opinion.)
 
If you want a thermostat, I'd look at the thermostat before you decide on interface.  A lot of thermostats will only support one or two interfaces, so you'll then see if you can get it in an interface that works with your system.
 
Have you considered budget?  Amount of money you want to spend really helps narrow the field of devices to consider.  For example, your Omni can interface to Radio RA2 from Leviton, which some people really like.  But the devices will run you $100-250 per switch/dimmer.  If that's in the range you are willing to spend, then those can be considered as well.
 
Note that the Omni supports ZWave, but does require an interface to be added, and you need a programming system to set it up.  You'll need to purchase that or hire an installer to do the setup on the Omni.
 
The Omni can talk UPB and Zigbee as well, and you would need to add those interfaces as well.  (Unless you purchased a package that includes some interfaces already.)

 

[JonW]

Been running UPB for about 13 years now.  Been using HAI OPII for 6 years.   It's a rock solid combination.  If I was doing it again right now, I'd end up picking the same combo again.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

At this point, I don't think I want to automate the thermostats.   We have 4 zones and I didn't run cable to them.   So probably Nest will be installed.
 
So what do I need if I pick a protocol?   An interface?   More $$$?
 
UPB seems more spendy than z-wave which seems to have more/cheaper options.   What do I need to buy to interface my Omni with switches?  
 
--Russ

 

[JonW]

UPB only requires the PIM plug in interface module.  It plugs right into the OPII and has full support built into the Omni.
 
You might want to reconsider thermostats.  You can use HAI Zigbee thermostats that don't need wires to them.  There's so much more you can do with thermostats that are part of your automation.  e.g. when the house is empty, change setpoints or when people leaves doors/windows open, shut down AC zones.  Plus, you could have HVAC in the same interface as the rest of the automation.  Also, did you see the latest NEST outage the other day?  Nobody could adjust their units because of a problem at their cloud host. 

 

[Bzncrewjr]

JonW, 
 
What thermostat would you recommend?   We have none yet.   4 zones, 2 furnaces/AC units.  Nest seems pretty simple.  But I'm open to ideas.
 
--Russ

 

[JonW]

I'd look at the HAI Omnistat2's.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

I'd look at the HAI Omnistat2's.

 So the Omnistat2 don't need an extra wire?   Runs entirely from standard HVAC wiring?

 

[drvnbysound]

That's what I was referring to above re: Zwave. Their thermostats wouldn't need any additional wiring as they communicate via RF. You just replace the existing thermostat with a Zwave one and add it to your Zwave network.

 

[pete_c]

Thinking around 2009 HAI had a Z-Wave thermostat.  Looking today at my Omnitstat 2 it has Zigbee firmware but no zigbee radio.
 
Googling what happened to the HAI Z-Wave thermostat found a few references....like...
 
July, 2009...
 
Anyone know what the state of their z-wave product is?
 
HAI has discontinued them . I got the impression from the Marketing Directer at CES that they were going to drop Zwave altogether because they were unhappy with the direction Zwave was going.

I still have some HAI units on the shelf.
 
That's the same thing our sales rep said. He said that since the unit was only good for 25-50 feet from the controller people were not happy to hear that they were going to have to buy a bunch of devices to hop the signals back to the controller, especially if all they wanted was a thermostat. Zwave was a pain to get going on the HAI controller anyway,
 
Sure, but the gist of it remains true - if you're implementing HAI products for your customer and you want to implement a z-wave thermostat for them, the fact that you'd have to implement products that "aren't like what they already have" in order to implement the wireless thermostat effectively will probably be a kill-joy.....
 
absolutely correct, as much as I might have wanted to not have to run the serial line to each thermostat, nobody wanted to hear that I also needed to put a bunch of other things in as well. It just wasn't cost effective to do it that way, by the time I installed enough Zwave devices to make their mesh reliable, it was cheaper in the long run to just run the serial line and be done with it.
 
Here stayed with a serially connected Omnistat2
 
Did test the Zigbee Omnistat2 to work fine with the Almond + way back and just relating to testing only here...

 

[JonW]

The HAI OmniStat2's use Zigbee to communicate wirelessly so they work with existing wiring.
 
(from their info)
WIRELESS ZIGBEE THERMOSTATS 

Wireless Omnistat2 thermostats utilizing ZigBee Home Automation technology are perfect for new construction and residential or small commercial retrofits. These do not require additional wiring to connect the thermostat to the automation controller as they communicate wirelessly. These thermostat models provide additional wireless controls over individual high-draw devices such as pool pumps, fountains, signage, or other motors/fans.
 
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61936

 

[cobra]

But note that the Zigbee Omnistat2 is one of their most expensive thermostats, and requires the Zigbee interface for the Omni, which puts you in the $500 range for one w/interface.  (Not that I don't like the idea, I planned to install one last year, and bought a used one, but ended up having to send it to HAI for repair before getting the Zigbee working.)
 
On the Nest side, also be aware that Nest's don't always work with a two/three wire interface.  If you have a newer install with both thermostat loops and ground lines, you'll be fine, but there are cases where you'll need to run an extra wire for the Nest as well.  I ran one for a few years and pulled it the night it died in 10 degree weather and there was no way for me to keep the heat running.  Nest got points from me for having 24 hour tech support that was their to walk me through some trouble shooting at midnight on a Sat.  But the unit seemed to have failed and had no way I could even get it to maintain basic temperature.  Nest support recommended swapping out the unit with another thermostat until they could swap out the unit.

 

[JonW]

I added the Zigbee interface (ZIM) to my HAI OPII just to support locks and thermostats.  I'll never use anything Zwave.

 

[ano]

My Zigbee thermostats have always worked perfectly. Yes a bit more expensive, but they are pretty nice also and have lots of features.  Zigbee could be used for lighting also, and I have a fair number of Zigbee bulbs and Zigbee outlets, but for whatever reason, Zigbee light switches are still limited an availability. UPB fills the gap nicely here, Leviton's HLC really works well if you learn about it and embrace it.  I wouldn't use Zwave either.  Zigbee and Zwave seem like they are similar, but when you look under the covers, its night-and-day.  Maybe if you keep the numbers down it works, but if you go with many devices, I'd pick Zigbee.