Does anyone know what Insteon 2 as added features etc

[Digger]

From what I have read I think I2 just means extended messaging enabled and is probably only important to developers. The Remotelinc and Keypadlinc 1.5 are I2 but nothing else is yet as far as I can tell. Unless you are the guy behind the curtain wrestling with programming peeks and pokes it should not matter to you.

Wayne,

As you can see Mike read something somewhere. Where I do not know and I dont care since I am sure he is correct. If you want to make a federal case that is fine. Just maybe do it in emails to me directly and I will do my best to find where Mike read about it. Or you can ask him nicely and I am sure he will tell you if he remembers.

 

[Digger]

Someone told me that the remotelinc and the keypadlinc V1.5 has I2. Maybe they are mistaken but you can see the post for yourself. I copied the post from UDI over here yet you keep asking for it. Its here. WHat more do you want. Frank asked what new features are in I2 and I basically asked the same question here. Someone here knew the answer (so was it so wrong to ask here). So whats the problem?

"Someone told me" is hearsay. I asked for the link to read it in full context. In fact, I asked (nicely) multiple times (since post #6) and you still haven't given a single link.

"Maybe they are mistaken but you can see the post for yourself." I cannot see the post as the forum you alluded too doesn't have a search engine if you aren't a member. Please provide the requested links.

"So whats the problem?" You still haven't provided any response to my questions about a second forum or to who is testing "Insteon 2".

Basically, you started a thread asking a lot of leading, speculative questions, implied things and have refused to provide any evidence to back up any of your comments!

Is it that big of a deal that they came out with a new version if it is true that it does not affect users? We didnt know that before this thread and now we do. Great we learned something today and there is nothing wrong with what SH did (except maybe they forgot to tell people).

I usually fail to see the point of releasing something with a name if it doesn't affect users. So, if "Insteon 2" exists, then I assume it will have some impact on users. That impact may be as (apparently) minor as they need to get new software or re-read the instruction manual if they want to use the new features. But I doubt the software developers call that "minor". And I doubt many users will note a new feature buried in the document if you don't call it out to them.

Wayne,

I took Mikes word for it when he said it was no big deal. Its out and hopefully it works. His post to me may be considered hearsay to you and fine you are entitled to that opinion. For me his word was good enough and I wasnt going to ask him to sign in blood that it was the gods honest truth.

You might also want to search Homeseer since those guys would also be interested in it since they are struggling themselves with these issues and they MAY have more information. I do not know if Powerhome is affected but Dave is a nice guy and I am sure he will help you if he can.

Basically I asked a question and you took it as if I was attacking you or your best friend or something. IT WAS A QUESTION AND ASKED BY OTHERS AS WELL. Did I make up Insteon 2 well in SOME PEOPLE MINDS I guess I did. Is it backwards compatible with everything? Well Tom F. says yes so I beleive him but Michel K says he has to change the ISY so maybe it not (good to know since I own an ISY). Not a big deal as the ISY is flashable and Michel will have a fix soon enough I am sure.

Did I want to go into such detail as this? No once my question was answered I was happy. You needed more information than Mikes word and now he was nice enough to provide it. You should thank him (I do) and I did not remember exactly where I saw more information (other than what Mike posted) and when I find it I will send it to you.

If you follow the thread below there is a problem with the V1.5 with the ISY. Nothing major hopefully and it may or may not be a I2 issue I have no clue.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=595

 

[WayneW]

I copied the post over to here and I gave you the email address to contact the tech support so you can join the forum. I thought by now you could have joined.

Well, now you are just trying to antagonize me. I already told you that I was not able to join the forum due to technical issues, that the forum doesn't allow guests to search and I was not able to find the posts you referred to, yet you continue to taunt me. I think you are showing your true to colors to the whole world here. Why couldn't you just be a friend and post a darn link when asked? Kudos to UpstateMike for finally posting a link.

But Digger, you still haven't provided the other links I asked for, so I have to assume you realized that you had no links to back up your comments and weren't adult enough to admit to your mistakes. Instead you chose to just drag this out needlessly.

UpstateMike posted that I2 is in fact released. Great. So who is testing it... well anyone with a Remotelinc or the keypadlinc with V1.5. How does that not answer your questions? Also Mike B. posted (and I copied that here and he replied to it as well) that he will be testing the V1.5 in a few weeks.

So...... what else do you need to know? Is I2 a big deal? Not to me once Upstate Mike answered my simple questions. Apparently not many people know it exists. I did not until today and I did not know what it was until this thread where Upstate Mike told me.

So, if you didn't know about the posts on the UDI forum until USM linked to them, where DID you hear about "Insteon 2"? Put up some links or quit changing your story.

So, what exactly is the "Insteon 2" that Michel Kohanim referred to? Does anybody else refer to it that way? This whole "Insteon 2" confusion seems to be less than 24 hours old and isolated to one forum.

If I test a KPL with 1.5 firmware using existing PowerHome, I doubt I am testing I2 since I can find no reference to it on the PH site. But yet PH supports the Remotelinc, which also an I2 device. Since Michel Kohanim stated today that UDI doesn't support the KPL 1.5 yet, I don't think ANY user can currently test I2. It is a shame that Trevor's official post on 11/16/07 that KPL 1.5 was shipping didn't mention that users would need new software to take advantage of these features. Unfortunately, that is software that may take months to appear, depending upon your choice of software, which just leads to user confusion. Will the Elk XSP need to be updated to support the KPL 1.5? What about all the other software packages?

As you can see Mike read something somewhere. Where I do not know and I dont care since I am sure he is correct.

Again, no offense to USM, but some of us like to verify what we read & see it in its full context. Just because you believe everything you read, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

I took Mikes word for it when he said it was no big deal. Its out and hopefully it works. His post to me may be considered hearsay to you and fine you are entitled to that opinion. For me his word was good enough and I wasnt going to ask him to sign in blood that it was the gods honest truth.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the SH methodology... ship something and hope it works? I find it scary that they are shipping something and apparently NO body supports it. I could find no mention of it on any other popular message boards.

IT WAS A QUESTION AND ASKED BY OTHERS AS WELL.
<snip>
Did I want to go into such detail as this? No once my question was answered I was happy.

And if you would have provided the links (nicely asked for) to those other people and threads asking and talking about I2, we wouldn't have need to have half these posts.

 

[Digger]

I copied the post over to here and I gave you the email address to contact the tech support so you can join the forum. I thought by now you could have joined.

Well, now you are just trying to antagonize me. I already told you that I was not able to join the forum due to technical issues, that the forum doesn't allow guests to search and I was not able to find the posts you referred to, yet you continue to taunt me. I think you are showing your true to colors to the whole world here. Why couldn't you just be a friend and post a darn link when asked? Kudos to UpstateMike for finally posting a link.

But Digger, you still haven't provided the other links I asked for, so I have to assume you realized that you had no links to back up your comments and weren't adult enough to admit to your mistakes. Instead you chose to just drag this out needlessly.

UpstateMike posted that I2 is in fact released. Great. So who is testing it... well anyone with a Remotelinc or the keypadlinc with V1.5. How does that not answer your questions? Also Mike B. posted (and I copied that here and he replied to it as well) that he will be testing the V1.5 in a few weeks.

So...... what else do you need to know? Is I2 a big deal? Not to me once Upstate Mike answered my simple questions. Apparently not many people know it exists. I did not until today and I did not know what it was until this thread where Upstate Mike told me.

So, if you didn't know about the posts on the UDI forum until USM linked to them, where DID you hear about "Insteon 2"? Put up some links or quit changing your story.

So, what exactly is the "Insteon 2" that Michel Kohanim referred to? Does anybody else refer to it that way? This whole "Insteon 2" confusion seems to be less than 24 hours old and isolated to one forum.

If I test a KPL with 1.5 firmware using existing PowerHome, I doubt I am testing I2 since I can find no reference to it on the PH site. But yet PH supports the Remotelinc, which also an I2 device. Since Michel Kohanim stated today that UDI doesn't support the KPL 1.5 yet, I don't think ANY user can currently test I2. It is a shame that Trevor's official post on 11/16/07 that KPL 1.5 was shipping didn't mention that users would need new software to take advantage of these features. Unfortunately, that is software that may take months to appear, depending upon your choice of software, which just leads to user confusion. Will the Elk XSP need to be updated to support the KPL 1.5? What about all the other software packages?

As you can see Mike read something somewhere. Where I do not know and I dont care since I am sure he is correct.

Again, no offense to USM, but some of us like to verify what we read & see it in its full context. Just because you believe everything you read, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

I took Mikes word for it when he said it was no big deal. Its out and hopefully it works. His post to me may be considered hearsay to you and fine you are entitled to that opinion. For me his word was good enough and I wasnt going to ask him to sign in blood that it was the gods honest truth.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the SH methodology... ship something and hope it works? I find it scary that they are shipping something and apparently NO body supports it. I could find no mention of it on any other popular message boards.

IT WAS A QUESTION AND ASKED BY OTHERS AS WELL.
<snip>
Did I want to go into such detail as this? No once my question was answered I was happy.

And if you would have provided the links (nicely asked for) to those other people and threads asking and talking about I2, we wouldn't have need to have half these posts.

I POSTED THE ONE POSTING FROM UDI AND I COULD NOT FIND THE OTHER ONE!!! SO LINCH ME!

I STILL CANT FIND THE OTHER POST WHERE I SAW IT> BURN ME AT THE STAKE FINE. But it is something that I saw and asked if anyone knows what it is since I didnt. Mike knew about it and answered. Thats all. You wanted 3 means of proof to believe it. Well you have 2 now. Not good enough for you thats your right.

WHEN I FIND THE OTHER POST I will put a link up..... OK???

Is I2 a disaster to you? I hope not. Can I explain SH? Nope LOL. Is anything else affected other than the ISY? I dont know I was asking not telling. I dont have the answers but I really dont think its as big of a problem as you seem to feel it is. I hope it is not. BUT I really dont know. Again I asked because I didnt know. You made it look like I was saying it was a problem and I am saying I dont think it is (for you it might be and I am sorry to hear that).

Tom F. was not aware of it and said it didnt exist. Ok he didnt know thats fine. Heck maybe it doesn't and he is right after all.

I wasn't trying to antagonize you I sent you the email link right away so you could join the forum and look for yourself since I could not find it. Maybe you will find it before me I dont know.

I posted what I had and thats the best I could do. Mike found something else as well. OK great! Not good enough for you in a court of law..... ok fine. Dont beleive its true and dont worry about it and move on and hopefully you will never have an issue with it.

If you had spent less time attacking you probably would have found what you are looking for on your own by now. You are doing everything you can to attack if a comma is misplaced rather than realize it is as Mike said it is probably not a big deal to end users. He is probably right. Good enough for me at the moment.

 

[sloop]

From what I have read I think I2 just means extended messaging enabled and is probably only important to developers. The Remotelinc and Keypadlinc 1.5 are I2 but nothing else is yet as far as I can tell. Unless you are the guy behind the curtain wrestling with programming peeks and pokes it should not matter to you.

excellent answer to the question

that is one of the many problems with insteon - you have to know far too much about it to be a casual user - for example - if you have signallincs (as i do), the extended message format is not supported - so i assume bridging capability won't be there

and a valid question - fear, uncertainty and doubt is not something that arises for no reason - and not something remidied by deleting posts and threads

 

[fitzpatri8]

that is one of the many problems with insteon - you have to know far too much about it to be a casual user - for example - if you have signallincs (as i do), the extended message format is not supported - so i assume bridging capability won't be there

and a valid question - fear, uncertainty and doubt is not something that arises for no reason - and not something remidied by deleting posts and threads

Let's see... plug in two devices, plug in two Accesspoints to bridge phases, press & hold set buttton on device 1 for ten seconds, press and hold set button on device 2 for ten seconds, done. Damn, that's complicated!

If they won't link, check the house for a short list of devices, unplug those devices, put a $19 filter on the one that is the problem. Wow. Too complicated. Head is about to explode!

If you want more functionality (like remote status monitoring, or scenes), it is built in--no need to buy a more expensive model--it just takes a little more time to program. But the casual user can tap-tap and be done with it.

Show me an easier, more reliable technology. Please!

 

[WayneW]

Digger, I apologize for being over zealous with you in my quest for truth and accuracy.

 

[MikeB]

I can't believe I'm not involved in this one. It's like an out of body experience.

 

[Digger]

I can't believe I'm not involved in this one. It's like an out of body experience.

Well you didnt even know it existed from what I could see........


I asked what I had thought would be a simple questions and since very few people were aware it existed accusations flew. Heck maybe Tom F is right and it really doesnt exist but it seems like it does. Sometimes the secrecy at SH hurts more than it helps.

My final opinion is that I2 (if it truly exists) is not a big deal to me since I have very little working devices at this time. I will wait even longer now before I decide if I will give Insteon a full try again. Just in case. But I will probably find out in the end that I2 means nothing to an end user as UpstateMike stated. Mike has a huge investment and he does not seem concerned in the least so to me that is a very good sign.

 

[Digger]

Digger, I apologize for being over zealous with you in my quest for truth and accuracy.

Isn't it Truth, Justice and the American way????? Or something like that (you know what I am refering to???)

No worries Wayne I know you are a nice guy and you didnt mean any harm to anyone. I hope it all works out for you in the end. I would not loose sleep over it from what I have seen so far.

 

[sloop]

that is one of the many problems with insteon - you have to know far too much about it to be a casual user - for example - if you have signallincs (as i do), the extended message format is not supported - so i assume bridging capability won't be there

and a valid question - fear, uncertainty and doubt is not something that arises for no reason - and not something remidied by deleting posts and threads

Let's see... plug in two devices, plug in two Accesspoints to bridge phases, press & hold set buttton on device 1 for ten seconds, press and hold set button on device 2 for ten seconds, done. Damn, that's complicated!

If they won't link, check the house for a short list of devices, unplug those devices, put a $19 filter on the one that is the problem. Wow. Too complicated. Head is about to explode!

If you want more functionality (like remote status monitoring, or scenes), it is built in--no need to buy a more expensive model--it just takes a little more time to program. But the casual user can tap-tap and be done with it.

Show me an easier, more reliable technology. Please!

well reliability was not the point - because we all know insteon's track record there - at least the smarthome devices

interesting that the devices sold to us did not support the insteon specifications - might instill fear, uncertainty and doubt

 

[Digger]

that is one of the many problems with insteon - you have to know far too much about it to be a casual user - for example - if you have signallincs (as i do), the extended message format is not supported - so i assume bridging capability won't be there

and a valid question - fear, uncertainty and doubt is not something that arises for no reason - and not something remidied by deleting posts and threads

Let's see... plug in two devices, plug in two Accesspoints to bridge phases, press & hold set buttton on device 1 for ten seconds, press and hold set button on device 2 for ten seconds, done. Damn, that's complicated!

If they won't link, check the house for a short list of devices, unplug those devices, put a $19 filter on the one that is the problem. Wow. Too complicated. Head is about to explode!

If you want more functionality (like remote status monitoring, or scenes), it is built in--no need to buy a more expensive model--it just takes a little more time to program. But the casual user can tap-tap and be done with it.

Show me an easier, more reliable technology. Please!

You will probably think of this as a wise ass remark but please dont as it is not intended that way.

A hardwired system (where possible in new construction etc) would probably be more reliable. Not stating a fact but if you think about it .....

As far as features and flexibility yes Insteon has MANY advantages (in my opinion). Are there problems with QC, implementation, etc..... well everyone can decide for themselves.

 

[sloop]

someone just lock this thread already... it is the worst thing I have read on Cocoon in as long as I can remember. =) Having flashbacks from pre-internet BBS flame wars...

Delete the whole thing for that matter and save people from looking for any valuable information in this 3 page pit..

Insteon published extended messaging protocol information from the start, now two devices have came out using that extended protocol. Dimmers and the such can not be field upgraded to use extended messaging and new models may come out to take advantage of the Extended Messages, but it does not mean anyone has to upgrade or that they will use a "new" protocol....


Vaughn

except their signallincs

 

[khearn]

From having done a lot of reading of the Insteon Developer's Manual lately, the whole i2 thing is a bunch of new Insteon commands that require extended messaging, which was not supported on previous Insteon devices. The key thing I've seen is that on all existing Insteon devices, to read/write the devices memory remotely (such as when using a PLC or PLM to get a SwitchLinc's link table), you had to use the peek/poke commands to read/write one byte at a time. Now there are extended commands that will read multiple bytes at once, making it a much quicker and easier process. But the new commands only work on the new "i2" devices. Apparently those are currently the RemoteLinc and the KeypadLincs with 1.5 firmware.

I think there are a number of other extended length commands, but I haven't paid attention to them, since I'm currently working on coding routines for reading link tables. I haven't seen anything that would effect anyone other than someone writing code, but I haven't looked at all of the extended commands.

My problem with the i2 stuff is that in the manual they say in red lettering that the peek/poke method is now deprecated and that you should use the extended commands. But anyone who writes code to support existing devices *has* to use the peek/poke, since the extended commands don't work on the existing devices. I suppose a few years from now one might be able to do without them, but for now we have to code for the stuff that's out there. The peek/poke stuff should also work with i2 devices, so it will probably be a while before I get around to coding up alternate routines to use the extended commands. The only reason to use the new stuff is that it will run quicker. It'll be easier to code than the peek/poke, but since I have to write using peek/poke for existing stuff, then the new stuff would be extra work, even though it's easier. Meh.

Keith

 

[gatchel]

When I read this I feel like we were all beta testers. Insteon works very well in it's current form but I am now thankful that I didn't dump the cash that I initially wanted to into a bunch of devices that I would have to change out to get 'features" that , in some peoples mind, should have been included in the initial release, especially the hardwired ones. My device count is about 9 devices, 4 of which are hardwired. I might order one more KPL to make life easier when exiting the house but that's it for a while. I want to see what happens with the newer functionality. I don't want to "beta test" anymore. I want to install and forget about it.

As I said, I am happy with Insteon. It's much more reliable than x-10. I have some reading to do in the developers manual...