Dump Insteon and go with z-wave??

[KenM]

Just as a 'by the way' type of thing.

I have read posts that say Z-Wave will not work in a metal box fixture. I invite those folks to provide some specific info on that.

I have personally, as a test, have wrapped my HA22 into a an aluminum 'box' and was able to communicate well with the rest of my Z-Wave net.

Some of you will probably never understand that, at certain frequencies, a metal box becomes a 'reflector'.

I have 'some' understanding of RF theory and believe my view is right.

Challengers?...

Ken

 

[Micah]

Chris,

Thank you for the clarification. I didn't realize that the Intermatics could be used as slaves in the virtual 3-way scene.

KenM,

I've got most of my Z-Wave switches in metal boxes and they work fine.

I remember reading something about that quite a while ago but thought it was more speculation than anyone actually having that problem. It's news to me if someone really was seeing that in practice.

 

[IVB]

I've got most of my Z-Wave switches in metal boxes and they work fine.

Yep, same here. Well, mine is 50-50 for metal vs plastic. The problems I had related to distance, the closer in metal ones all worked just fine.

 

[keepersg]

Sorka, Would be worth your while, if you haven't, to do a search over on the Homeseer board for Z-wave problems and frustrations. Techmall seems the best place to me to learn the worst on Insteon. The equation seems to be (Expectation/Performance)**2*Time=Complaint Magnitude

 

[sorka]

Well, my only frustration with insteon from a personal standpoint at this point is simply lack of products. I need/want to do things with HA that I simply can't with insteon.

 

[upstatemike]

My biggest concern was IR but now I use PowerHome to translate X-10 to Insteon. My HT remote now controls my Insteon lights just fine.

I'm not really sure why folks think an Insteon thermostat is a good idea. I used to have X-10 thermostats when that was all you could get for automation but once RCS came out with the RS-485 units I switched over to those. I would never go back to controlling thermostats using a powerline or RF connection no matter what the protocol.

Agree that the motion detectors would be nice but using the lights I need motion controlled in X-10 mode is working for now. As soon as PowerHome gets the Elk integration done I will use wired motions to trigger Insteon which is more flexible than a direct link using some kind of wireless Insteon motion sensor anyway.

Some of the products you are waiting for would not be the best solutions for the given application even if they were available.

 

[Steve]

Well, my only frustration with insteon from a personal standpoint at this point is simply lack of products. I need/want to do things with HA that I simply can't with insteon.

And if I were a gambling man I would place a very large bet saying you will run into something you want to do that you simply can't in Zwave either. Hence, my bet on a hybrid system.

 

[KenM]

Hi all,

I will admit that the INSTEON protocol is well thought out and, for the most part, is error free. I like it, I like it a lot.

I am, however, one of the growing number of people who now have a 'INSTEON junk box' in the garage and are happily using Z-Wave devices. I made the switch about May of 06, after I arrived at the conclusion that the majority of SmartLab's efforts were 'apparently' going into marketing, and not customer and product support.

I suspect that a few years from now, it will just be a choice between economy or quality. Both are good, it just depends on if you want a Toyota or a Yugo.

In my case, I do not need to know the status of every switch in my house. All I want is for a good quality switch to work reliably. Z-Wave is lacking in the 'link everything to everything' ability that all INSTEON devices have.

The availability of compact Z-Wave remotes is a big plus. SmartLabs definitely needs to do some SERIOUS 'catching up' in that area.

On Thursday of last week, I placed an order with WAYNE-DALTON, for a kit that will allow me to use a secure (rolling code) keychain remote to control a low voltage relay, designed for universal garage door access. The remote can also control a small number of home control Z-Wave scenes.

I have heard this discussion before, many years ago, but, at the time it was titled "Fords or Chevys, which is best?". :lol:

Regards to all,

Ken

edit corrected spelling

 

[sorka]

My biggest concern was IR but now I use PowerHome to translate X-10 to Insteon. My HT remote now controls my Insteon lights just fine.

I'm not really sure why folks think an Insteon thermostat is a good idea. I used to have X-10 thermostats when that was all you could get for automation but once RCS came out with the RS-485 units I switched over to those. I would never go back to controlling thermostats using a powerline or RF connection no matter what the protocol.

Agree that the motion detectors would be nice but using the lights I need motion controlled in X-10 mode is working for now. As soon as PowerHome gets the Elk integration done I will use wired motions to trigger Insteon which is more flexible than a direct link using some kind of wireless Insteon motion sensor anyway.

Some of the products you are waiting for would not be the best solutions for the given application even if they were available.

I don't want to control my thermostat as much as I need to know when the heat comes on so I can activate ceiling fans.

 

[sorka]

Well, my only frustration with insteon from a personal standpoint at this point is simply lack of products. I need/want to do things with HA that I simply can't with insteon.

And if I were a gambling man I would place a very large bet saying you will run into something you want to do that you simply can't in Zwave either. Hence, my bet on a hybrid system.

Hmm. The problem is currently, I can't do *most* of what I want with Insteon, but there is a z-wave solution for everything I already want to do.

 

[upstatemike]

I don't want to control my thermostat as much as I need to know when the heat comes on so I can activate ceiling fans.

Then you want to monitor the furnace, not the thermostat. I have a relay connected to my furnace fan so I get a dry contact signal into my controller whenever the air handler kicks on.

 

[sorka]

I don't want to control my thermostat as much as I need to know when the heat comes on so I can activate ceiling fans.

Then you want to monitor the furnace, not the thermostat. I have a relay connected to my furnace fan so I get a dry contact signal into my controller whenever the air handler kicks on.

It's a hack and I didn't say I didn't want to control my furnace at all. But I do want to look at temperature remotely, turn down the thermostat when I leave and arm the alarm system in away mode, and vary the fan speed based on temperature.

 

[batwater]

I don't want to control my thermostat as much as I need to know when the heat comes on so I can activate ceiling fans.

Then you want to monitor the furnace, not the thermostat. I have a relay connected to my furnace fan so I get a dry contact signal into my controller whenever the air handler kicks on.

It's a hack and I didn't say I didn't want to control my furnace at all. But I do want to look at temperature remotely, turn down the thermostat when I leave and arm the alarm system in away mode, and vary the fan speed based on temperature.

Have you considered replacing your thermostat with something like an Aprilaire 8870? I have been running this thermostat for 2+ years now without a hitch. Gives me complete access to the temperature, HVAC state, etc. This thermostat is RS485 so it will require a protocol converter to RS232.

I am in the process of implementing just what you are describing, setback control of the HVAC based on the state of the alarm system. I am taking it 1 step further than you described in that I will also be setting the thermostat based on "stay mode" arming of the security system and time of day / time of year, to adjust the set point on the thermostat for sleeping / energy savings.

Ben

 

[sorka]

Yes, have looked at that one and several other serial/wired based thermostat controls. It's just that wouldn't it be really cool if I could use a z-wave thermostat and not have to run yet another wire in my attic. With all of the cat-8 wire I've run throughout my house in the last 2 years, I don't think I ever want to go into my attic again.

 

[batwater]

Yes, have looked at that one and several other serial/wired based thermostat controls. It's just that wouldn't it be really cool if I could use a z-wave thermostat and not have to run yet another wire in my attic. With all of the cat-8 wire I've run throughout my house in the last 2 years, I don't think I ever want to go into my attic again.

I must have missed something in the thread... You mention running a wire to the attic, I am presuming that you do not have a basement and that all wiring is up, over and down through the attic? I can appreciate the sentiment, not my favorite place to visit either. I need to run a 2" conduit from my basement to the attic via the garage so I can run cable for HD OTA antenna, W800RF32 1/4 wave antenna (built from plans on cocoonTech) as well as CCTV video and power feeds, been putting it off.

If you have a network drop near by perhaps you could add something like a Global Cache GC-100 to run the serial communications over your network (have one, works great!)

Good luck

Ben