Elk Can installation question...

[TomMarek]

Hi everyone,
I'm a first time DIY'er replacing an existing system and my question involves the physical installation of the ELK can and can wiring.

Does anyone have a photo of a M1G (14.25x14x25) cabinet installation that you could share? I just received the M1G kit with the Insteon option and noticed how small the can is relative to the M1 board. I have an M1XIN zone expander and M1XEP on the way so I'll need room for those too.

A quick background: I removed an exsting basic DSC unit due to poor functionality and the fact the installers connected doors to windows. After ID'ing the zones, I have 17 hard wired NC zones, 1 combo smoke/heat and 2 keypads and will be adding a third keypad, temp and water sensors to the mix. Can location is surface mounted in the master closet. Upon can removal I found 10x12 hole in the sheetrock that I'll cover with the new Elk (14.25x14.25) can.

Since the wiring will have to come through the back knockouts if I surface mount, I'm concerned there will not be any room for the M1XIN and other periphrials. Heck, even if I recess the can in the sheet rock it seems there is not much room to keep things neat.

Any suggestions or a photo of a neat way to route wires in a can this small would be appreciated . Thanks in advance.

Tom

 

[Neurorad]

After the stuff arrives, unpack and lay stuff out on a table. Move the pieces around inside the can, and try different configurations.

Some of the Elk devices come with 'holders' that allow the cards to be mounted perpendicular to the back plate, reducing the footprint. The part is ELK-SWG, and they're called 'circuit board glides'. I haven't seen many people use them here at cocoontech.

You could get creative and use standoffs/spacers to try and stack some of the devices, but that's usually good for expansion cards that are designed to be stacked, usually the same device.

If you can't get it to work, don't despair. A larger enclosure would work, or a second similar enclosure may do the trick. Seems many members here at cocoontech have 2 or more enclosures. Never seems to be enough room.

Edit - will the M1 provide enough power, or will you need an additional power supply? Think you may add some wireless sensors to the mix some day?

 

[upstatemike]

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...ost&id=1403

 

[Steve]

Welcome to CocoonTech Tom. Unless you know for sure this will be the extent of your system (and I bet it won't - it never is), then if you have the space I would get a larger can. The cans are like hard drives, it can never be big enough as you find it very easy to fill up with stuff. Here is an example of a layout in a 50" can, you can see lots of other pics in that gallery too. Personally I hate the Elk glides and would never use them unless absolutely necessary. You'll also bend the crap out of your wires if using them and you try to close a cover. I like to mount the boards flat on removable plates with standoffs but some people use that fat tape or even keep the part in its case and use fridge magnets. But the key is a can big enough to give you the freedom to lay it out nicely.

 

[felixrosbergen]

The perpendicular mounting is a great space saver...but in my opinion makes wire management inside the can more difficult. I bought the kit without the can and mounted in a 42" Leviton can, but that is WAY too big if you're indeed just doing alarm. After i added lighting control and thermostat control my can i now pretty much full.

What it seems quite a few people do is keep the ELK can and put the power supply and battery in there...then get a 2nd larger can to fit the control and expansion modules.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...friend&st=0

 

[apostolakisl]

I mounted my system to a wall in a secure closet, no can at all. I have never seen a "can" bign enough for all of my stuff. And if you are anything like me, you will think you are done and happy and then you will go buy some more gadgets to add on. At this point I have filled an area of wall about 4 ft by 5 ft. I simply mounted a piece of plywood to the wall to which I have mounted all of the items. So basically the entire closet is the "can"

 

[pete_c]

I just recently installed an Omni Pro II in a similiar sized can in the back of a closet. In same said closet I had previously installed a 28" Leviton can. The home was prewired with all of the cables coming out of a standard single duplex sized mudplate. I was able to mount the 14" box above the 28" can such that the wires entered one of the cutouts freely. Initially I wanted the box to be centered in the closet but its off a couple of inches but I was more interested in insuring that I could get to the wires and feed more if needed. It was a bit difficult to work in the closet so I removed the doors. A little bit at a time connected each of the zones. It was time consuming but when completed I was able to neaten up the wires.

I did utilize the lower 28" can but only for network connectivity and a couple of feeds to the alarm panel. I also added another electrical box dedicated to the alarm adjacent to the one double duplex that was already there. As mentioned above you could add a second box if you don't feel confortable trying to fit everything in one box. My setup in the MW is using a similar setup but my HAI panel is pretty full with an expansion board and smoke/detector boards...but each of the addition boards are easy to get to at this time.

Interesting cuz a neighbor friend in FL asked about what I did and wants me to remove their panel and replace it with an Omni Pro II......

 

[gatchel]

I didn't even think of using the 14 inch can. I went with the 28 inch one and I am happy I did.

 

[TomMarek]

Hello everyone and thanks for the welcome.

Neurorad: Good suggestion on the additional box. I looked at buying a 28†box but they run close to $100. Second 14x14 is only $28 and it should give me the additional room to mount the Ethernet interface and other expansion stuff.

Upstatemike: Thanks for the link to the photo. I poked around the gallery but never found this one. It is way more than I’ll need but it gave me a few good ideas.

MavRic, Lou and Steve: I’m really space limited since the location is on a frequently used master closet wall. I thought about the plywood mount but I’m worried about having the electronics covered by clothing and plastic laundry bags.

Pete-c: Good points indeed. Our last home had an Omni Pro II and I loved it but it was installed by a first rate installer that knew what he was doing. The current home had a “builder’s special†DSC system so only 5 zones to cover the entire house and the installers wired doors and windows together and only one siren in the 2nd floor attic. I wanted keypads with text readouts like the Omni, more zones and Insteon control so I decided to go Elk. My recent tech job loss made the $3500 pro quote to properly redo the installation out of reach, which is why I’m DIY.

I’m amazed and thankful for all the feedback. I’m sure I’ll have a few other questions along the way.

Thanks for your help.
Tom

 

[TomMarek]

Oh BraveSirRobin, I forgot to say thanks for the old thread with photos. Pictures speak volumes.

Thanks.
Tom