Elk/HAI Temperature Sensors

[yeti]

I'm doing my research and want to understand exactly what is achievable with a temperature sensor in either system.

1. Do I connect a temperature sensor directly to the main panel or expansion panel?

2. What variables are available to me with a simple external or internal sensor?

3. I am monitoring a large space (50k SF +) and want to measure and record data on temperature throughout, do I have to use Elk or HAI internal temp sensors or can I use a 'generic' sensor? If I can go generic (praying I can), and I need 30 of them, what are some good options?

Thank you very very much in advance.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I think the better way to approach this is ask what type of accuracy and ranges do you NEED?  Also, at what intervals do you want to log, what are you going to do with the data, and how long of record levels do you want to keep.
 
At first glance, I would say you want pretty good accuracy that may be beyond those controllers capabilities.  A true data logger might be a better device for this application for instance.

 

[yeti]

Excellent clarification requests.
 
Range: Normal habitable inside temperatures. 40-110 or something like that. No need to measure 0 kelvin.
 
Accuracy: I need to measure accurate to the degree (ie 64 degrees is fine), no need for fractions thereof (64.1)
 
Frequency: Every couple of seconds is fine, anywhere from 2 seconds to 60 seconds per probe

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

So, if I may paraphrase, range 40-110 +/- 1 Deg F for accuracy with recording every two to sixty seconds (depending on capability of recording hardware).  Quantity of 30 devices needed to be recorded.
 
What record length do you want to keep and what format (if that is important)? 
 
See, I'm thinking you are wanting this more for graphing/analysis than real time automation event triggers (i.e. more of a science project than automation).
 
Also, just to try to hit on all points for our members, what cable lengths are needed for these sensors?

 

[yeti]

So, if I may paraphrase, range 40-110 +/- 1 Deg F for accuracy with recording every two seconds.  What record length do you want to keep and what format (if that is important).  Quantity of 30 devices needed to be recorded.
 
See, I'm thinking you are wanting this more for graphing/analysis than real time automation event triggers (i.e. more of a science project than automation).
 
Also, just to try to hit on all points for our members, what cable lengths are needed for these sensors?

 
 
This is correct: "range 40-110 +/- 1 Deg F for accuracy with recording every two seconds"
 
As far as event triggers and graphic/analysis, I realize now that my original post is written somewhat poorly:
 
I need to use the temp sensors primarily for real time sensing and then automation within the HA system. Logging of temperatures recorded from the sensors hopefully can provide a side benefit of allowing me to graph my temperatures down the road.
 
As far as wiring distances, 500 feet is the longest run. I can install a sub/expansion panel at a distance from the main panel to hub-and-spoke the temp sensors (and others) if need be.

 

[ano]

I can't speak for ELK, but the HAI Omni Pro II has no ability to record a numeric value, and in fact, it is rather limited in what it can do with a temperature.  Temperature sensors can have a high set point and a low set point, and you can trigger if the temp is outside or inside this range of two temps.  That is pretty much it. You can't trigger an action based on if the temp is X or Y you can only trigger if its inside or outside the range of two set points.
 
There are much better devices to record temperatures over time than an automation panel. 

 

[JonW]

I can't speak for ELK, but the HAI Omni Pro II has no ability to record a numeric value, and in fact, it is rather limited in what it can do with a temperature.  Temperature sensors can have a high set point and a low set point, and you can trigger if the temp is outside or inside this range of two temps.  That is pretty much it. You can't trigger an action based on if the temp is X or Y you can only trigger if its inside or outside the range of two set points.
 
There are much better devices to record temperatures over time than an automation panel. 

That's incorrect.  There are lots of things you can do with the temperatures in HAI.  You need to create an automation rule that starts with "Every xx time", then evaluate the temp sensors.  You can use either the current temperature, high setpoint or low setpoint and the logical operators "is equal to", "is not equal to", "is greater than" or "is less than" to perform comparisons to specified values or to other sensors.  You can do things like if temperature sensor "A" is xx degrees greater than temperature sensor "B", then do ....
 
Also, pretty easy to log temperatures to a database for analysis.  I log all HAI activity to a SQL database and can routinely look at temperature trends of the data.  Each temp sensor generates an event when it changes, so you don't have to keep polling at a specified time, you just log it when it changes.

 

[picta]

Each temp sensor generates an event when it changes, so you don't have to keep polling at a specified time, you just log it when it changes.

 
What event or condition do you use to detect the temp change?

 

[JonW]

What event or condition do you use to detect the temp change?

 
It's part of the SDK.  I guess I wasn't clear as what I said made it sound like the panel logged the temp changes, but it is through the SDK only.
In the SDK, if you enable notifications, then the SDK will process a temperature message any time one of the temp values change.  That's how I log my temps (and any other HAI change in values).

 

[yeti]

Guys,
 
This is an *AWESOME* discussion. Seriously. In a previous life I was a C++/Java developer who had to do a ton of relational DB work in SQL. Will be all about logging to a DB if I can do via an SDK.
 
Couple of random follow up questions:
 
1. How much memory space is available in the HAI OmniPro II for rules programming? I can't seem to find it with some decent Google searching.
 
2. The HAI interior temperature sensors will obviously work, but they may also be expensive. What specifications of temp sensors will the HAI run, and does anyone have experience with non-HAI units?
 
3. Who do I buy the HAI from online?

 

[yeti]

Also, can Omni Pro II rules engine do nested conditionals? Combine if/thens, loops etc just like a full 3GL? TIA

 

[yeti]

Anyone?
 
Temperature sensor options or specifications would be very helpful, the documentation is lacking in this regard.

 

[JonW]

I'm personally not familiar with using any third-party temp sensors with HAI.  Their sensors are more complex than just something like a thermocouple or DS1820 style connection.  Do a quick google image search for "HAI TEMP SENSOR" and you'll see that each sensor has a microprocessor and several supporting components on the board.
 
In relation to your programming question, you really should try to take a look at the programming software to get a feel for how it is done.  It is not a traditional language, it's more of an If/Then builder screen.