Elk Help

[crowman]

Hello,

I am buying a new system to install in my sisters place and I was hoping that someone could give me a few pointers. I am an audio installer and dont really do much with alarm systems but I figured I would give it a shot (with help from some friends who have more experience in alarm install). In any case here goes!

I have approximately 100 zones that are comprised of:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)

18 doors
7 motions
19 Glass Breaks
1 siren
4 smoke Detectors
2 CO Detectors
12 Window Contacts groups
1 Heat Sensor
3 Arming stations
4 Keypads

Second Floor Panel

2 Door Contacts
2 Motions
7 Glass Breaks
1 Siren
5 Smoke Detectos
5 CO detectors
7 Window Contact Groups
1 Heat sensor
1 Arming Station
1 keypad

I am ordering the following:

ELK-M1KPAS M1 Arming Station (4
ELK-M1GK Control + Transformer + Keypad + Battery + Speaker + RJ31X Jack & Cord + 14" box (1)
ELK-SWB28 (28" enclosure) (1)
ELK-SWD1 (Grommet Donuts) (4)
ELK-M1PR Keypad Plug-in Proximity Reader (1)
ELK-M1PRF Proximity Fobs for ELK-M1PR Reader (Pack of 10) (1)
ELK-M1KP3 LCD Keypad (4)
ELK-M1XIN M1 16 Zone Input Expander (6)
ELK-RP (remote programming software) (1)
ELK-USB232 (1)
RCR50 50 ft PrecisionLine Dual Technology Motion Sensor (GE) (9)
SR-5812RND (GE Glass Break detector) (26)
EK-73 Speaker Siren (1)
GE Security 240-COE Carbon Monoxide Detector, (6)
4WTAR-B 4-Wire, Photoelectric I3 Smoke Detector (system sensor) (14)
BK-RRSMODPolarity Reversal Module (1)
5622 194-Degree F Fixed Temp/Rate-Of-Rise, Dual-Circuit Heat Detector (system sensor) (2)
ELK-M1XEP (ELK ethernet interface) (1)
Cell Guard Tellguard TG4 (1)

Sorry about this long list but I was hoping someone could tell me if this stuff looks ok (compatable). The smokes are the 4 wire type C units which I believe is what is required. My question regarding this is if I have a remote panel upstairs, and if I want to daisy chain the smokes upstairs and do the downstairs ones separately, do I need 2 polarity reversal modules? My understanding is that the panel upstairs connects via a single cat 5 to the panel downstairs. What do I need apart from a power supply to the upstairs panel? Is there some sort of module that I need from elk to make this work correctly? there are approximately 25 zones upstairs including all of the smokes in series as 1 zone.

Another question is regarding the window contacts. Every single window was home run to the basement panel or second floor panel. At that location, I was basically going to connect windows for each separate room together so as to avoid having a million zones so for example 3 wires for bedroon 3 will be connected together and 1 whip will be pulled from this. should I use the gel phone wire connectors for this or what would you suggest? some rooms have 8-10 windows...

In terms of the battery backup and the number of expansion cards for zones, is the battery that comes with the second floor will have the 14" housing and 2 x 16 zone expansion cards. Also there will be a honeywell power supply kit to power this panel HP312CX (includes a backup battery etc). THe basement panel will have the 16 exisiting zones on the panel plus 5 x 16 zone expansion cards for approximately 96 zones available. Do I need more battery backup here for this panel than what is provided?

Another question is regarding resistors... do I need them, can I do without?

I know there are some people who work for elk on this forum but for whatever reason I am not allowed to send them an email.

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated. Also, If anyone knows a good installer around chicago, that is relatively reasonably priced, could you let me know? I will name a zone in your honor if this gets up and running!!! thanks much.

 

[Peter_H]

Sorry about this long list but I was hoping someone could tell me if this stuff looks ok (compatable). The smokes are the 4 wire type C units which I believe is what is required. My question regarding this is if I have a remote panel upstairs, and if I want to daisy chain the smokes upstairs and do the downstairs ones separately, do I need 2 polarity reversal modules? My understanding is that the panel upstairs connects via a single cat 5 to the panel downstairs. What do I need apart from a power supply to the upstairs panel? Is there some sort of module that I need from elk to make this work correctly? there are approximately 25 zones upstairs including all of the smokes in series as 1 zone.

I can't really help you on your smoke questions but from your shopping list you are missing the ELK-M1DBH databus hubs. This what you will connect all of mudules that communicate on the bus to the M1. For example, the M1XIN's and your keypads. This is what allows you to use a single cat 5 run for all of the devices that will be upstairs.

For your setup, it looks like you will have 5 M1XIN and 4 keypads going to the basement wiring panel and then 2 M1XIN in the 2nd floor wiring panel. So, you will need 2 - M1DBH for the basement and 1 upstairs.

Another question is regarding the window contacts. Every single window was home run to the basement panel or second floor panel. At that location, I was basically going to connect windows for each separate room together so as to avoid having a million zones so for example 3 wires for bedroon 3 will be connected together and 1 whip will be pulled from this. should I use the gel phone wire connectors for this or what would you suggest? some rooms have 8-10 windows...

That's up to you. You can use the gel connectors or you could terminate them all on a buchanan strip. There are many different ways to do it. I am kind of a neat freak when it comes to wiring so I would use buchanan strips.

In terms of the battery backup and the number of expansion cards for zones, is the battery that comes with the second floor will have the 14" housing and 2 x 16 zone expansion cards. Also there will be a honeywell power supply kit to power this panel HP312CX (includes a backup battery etc). THe basement panel will have the 16 exisiting zones on the panel plus 5 x 16 zone expansion cards for approximately 96 zones available. Do I need more battery backup here for this panel than what is provided?

Depends on how long you want it to run for if the power goes out.

Personally, I think you might be in the territory of needing an external power supply to power all of those zones as well. Remember that the M1 can output a maximum of 1 amp so you will need to take all of your devices and do some calculating. Some sirens draw 1 amp on their own.

Another question is regarding resistors... do I need them, can I do without?

That's a touchy subject and ultimately, you need to make the call on that. There are tons of posts both for and against resistors.

Good luck on the install. It's a little intimidating at first but it's actually pretty easy once you get into to. Since you have an audio background you should adapt fairly quickly since it is a 12v system. Just read the manual, read the manual, and read it again and you should be fine.

 

[apostolakisl]

I would just back up Peter H on the databus hubs. They are very very much worth it as far as installation ease. You might have an issue, though, with wire run lengths. The data bus hub connects each item in series and if you get more than about 1000ft of wire out there I think there may be problems. You will need to pull the specs on that. The last item in the series needs to have a resistor on it or you can get data reflection issues.

I think this goes without saying, but I would be very diligint with wire labeling. Figure out a system before you start that will work for the 100 plus wires you appear to be putting in.

I would not set up each individual window as its own zone. It really is of no value and makes for a rediculous amount of wire. I set up banks of windows in my house as zones. Unless you would like to have one special window that you can bypass or put on a separate arming status for opening on nice days.

I would use resistors. If you put them at or near the end of each line, then you know you don't have damaged wires with a short.

You might think about water protection as well. Pull a wire to each water location in the home. Especially the water heater and washing machine. I put an elk water shut off valve in my house as well and wrote a rule to shut off the water 30 minutes after arming away. I know of two people who had massive water leaks that caused 100's of thousands of dollars in damage while they were out to dinner.

 

[crowman]

Sorry about this long list but I was hoping someone could tell me if this stuff looks ok (compatable). The smokes are the 4 wire type C units which I believe is what is required. My question regarding this is if I have a remote panel upstairs, and if I want to daisy chain the smokes upstairs and do the downstairs ones separately, do I need 2 polarity reversal modules? My understanding is that the panel upstairs connects via a single cat 5 to the panel downstairs. What do I need apart from a power supply to the upstairs panel? Is there some sort of module that I need from elk to make this work correctly? there are approximately 25 zones upstairs including all of the smokes in series as 1 zone.

I can't really help you on your smoke questions but from your shopping list you are missing the ELK-M1DBH databus hubs. This what you will connect all of mudules that communicate on the bus to the M1. For example, the M1XIN's and your keypads. This is what allows you to use a single cat 5 run for all of the devices that will be upstairs.

For your setup, it looks like you will have 5 M1XIN and 4 keypads going to the basement wiring panel and then 2 M1XIN in the 2nd floor wiring panel. So, you will need 2 - M1DBH for the basement and 1 upstairs.

Another question is regarding the window contacts. Every single window was home run to the basement panel or second floor panel. At that location, I was basically going to connect windows for each separate room together so as to avoid having a million zones so for example 3 wires for bedroon 3 will be connected together and 1 whip will be pulled from this. should I use the gel phone wire connectors for this or what would you suggest? some rooms have 8-10 windows...

That's up to you. You can use the gel connectors or you could terminate them all on a buchanan strip. There are many different ways to do it. I am kind of a neat freak when it comes to wiring so I would use buchanan strips.

In terms of the battery backup and the number of expansion cards for zones, is the battery that comes with the second floor will have the 14" housing and 2 x 16 zone expansion cards. Also there will be a honeywell power supply kit to power this panel HP312CX (includes a backup battery etc). THe basement panel will have the 16 exisiting zones on the panel plus 5 x 16 zone expansion cards for approximately 96 zones available. Do I need more battery backup here for this panel than what is provided?

Depends on how long you want it to run for if the power goes out.

Personally, I think you might be in the territory of needing an external power supply to power all of those zones as well. Remember that the M1 can output a maximum of 1 amp so you will need to take all of your devices and do some calculating. Some sirens draw 1 amp on their own.

Another question is regarding resistors... do I need them, can I do without?

That's a touchy subject and ultimately, you need to make the call on that. There are tons of posts both for and against resistors.

Good luck on the install. It's a little intimidating at first but it's actually pretty easy once you get into to. Since you have an audio background you should adapt fairly quickly since it is a 12v system. Just read the manual, read the manual, and read it again and you should be fine.

Hello thanks for your response. I really appreciate it. With respect to upstairs their is 1 keypad and 1 arming station so basically 2 keypads. The concern I have is that the keypads including the arming stations have been wired in series so every keypad is connected via a single cat5 cable. A keypad near the front doors is 1 of the terminations to the basement panel and the other termination also goes to the basement but comes from a bedroom on the second floor. I suspect this means that these are not on the upstairs panel. What if anything does this complicate? Does this change the databus layout? I am assuming I still need to have one databus unit upstairs to connect the expansion panels and to connect to the main panel. Now that I have only 2 wires coming from the terminating keypads, does this change the number of databus units I would need? There are a total of 9 keypads that are connected in series that terminate at the basement panel. Also I like the buccanon strip idea... does this make things easier or more painful? some of the zones have 10 windows that need to be connected. Do you know the best place to pick these up? Thanks in advance.

 

[crowman]

I would just back up Peter H on the databus hubs. They are very very much worth it as far as installation ease. You might have an issue, though, with wire run lengths. The data bus hub connects each item in series and if you get more than about 1000ft of wire out there I think there may be problems. You will need to pull the specs on that. The last item in the series needs to have a resistor on it or you can get data reflection issues.

I think this goes without saying, but I would be very diligint with wire labeling. Figure out a system before you start that will work for the 100 plus wires you appear to be putting in.

I would not set up each individual window as its own zone. It really is of no value and makes for a rediculous amount of wire. I set up banks of windows in my house as zones. Unless you would like to have one special window that you can bypass or put on a separate arming status for opening on nice days.

I would use resistors. If you put them at or near the end of each line, then you know you don't have damaged wires with a short.

You might think about water protection as well. Pull a wire to each water location in the home. Especially the water heater and washing machine. I put an elk water shut off valve in my house as well and wrote a rule to shut off the water 30 minutes after arming away. I know of two people who had massive water leaks that caused 100's of thousands of dollars in damage while they were out to dinner.

Lou thanks for your response. In terms of the windows, I agree that separate windows is insane so I will be setting up the banks of windows. I am thinking about doing the sump pumps and a few other spots for water protection and the second floor washing machine. I will look into the water shutoff valve... sounds like a really good idea. Could I ask you which specific resistors did you use and where can I pick some of those up? Also, did you put these at the device or at the panel? thanks in advance.

 

[Peter_H]

Sorry about this long list but I was hoping someone could tell me if this stuff looks ok (compatable). The smokes are the 4 wire type C units which I believe is what is required. My question regarding this is if I have a remote panel upstairs, and if I want to daisy chain the smokes upstairs and do the downstairs ones separately, do I need 2 polarity reversal modules? My understanding is that the panel upstairs connects via a single cat 5 to the panel downstairs. What do I need apart from a power supply to the upstairs panel? Is there some sort of module that I need from elk to make this work correctly? there are approximately 25 zones upstairs including all of the smokes in series as 1 zone.

I can't really help you on your smoke questions but from your shopping list you are missing the ELK-M1DBH databus hubs. This what you will connect all of mudules that communicate on the bus to the M1. For example, the M1XIN's and your keypads. This is what allows you to use a single cat 5 run for all of the devices that will be upstairs.

For your setup, it looks like you will have 5 M1XIN and 4 keypads going to the basement wiring panel and then 2 M1XIN in the 2nd floor wiring panel. So, you will need 2 - M1DBH for the basement and 1 upstairs.

Another question is regarding the window contacts. Every single window was home run to the basement panel or second floor panel. At that location, I was basically going to connect windows for each separate room together so as to avoid having a million zones so for example 3 wires for bedroon 3 will be connected together and 1 whip will be pulled from this. should I use the gel phone wire connectors for this or what would you suggest? some rooms have 8-10 windows...

That's up to you. You can use the gel connectors or you could terminate them all on a buchanan strip. There are many different ways to do it. I am kind of a neat freak when it comes to wiring so I would use buchanan strips.

In terms of the battery backup and the number of expansion cards for zones, is the battery that comes with the second floor will have the 14" housing and 2 x 16 zone expansion cards. Also there will be a honeywell power supply kit to power this panel HP312CX (includes a backup battery etc). THe basement panel will have the 16 exisiting zones on the panel plus 5 x 16 zone expansion cards for approximately 96 zones available. Do I need more battery backup here for this panel than what is provided?

Depends on how long you want it to run for if the power goes out.

Personally, I think you might be in the territory of needing an external power supply to power all of those zones as well. Remember that the M1 can output a maximum of 1 amp so you will need to take all of your devices and do some calculating. Some sirens draw 1 amp on their own.

Another question is regarding resistors... do I need them, can I do without?

That's a touchy subject and ultimately, you need to make the call on that. There are tons of posts both for and against resistors.

Good luck on the install. It's a little intimidating at first but it's actually pretty easy once you get into to. Since you have an audio background you should adapt fairly quickly since it is a 12v system. Just read the manual, read the manual, and read it again and you should be fine.

Hello thanks for your response. I really appreciate it. With respect to upstairs their is 1 keypad and 1 arming station so basically 2 keypads. The concern I have is that the keypads including the arming stations have been wired in series so every keypad is connected via a single cat5 cable. A keypad near the front doors is 1 of the terminations to the basement panel and the other termination also goes to the basement but comes from a bedroom on the second floor. I suspect this means that these are not on the upstairs panel. What if anything does this complicate? Does this change the databus layout? I am assuming I still need to have one databus unit upstairs to connect the expansion panels and to connect to the main panel. Now that I have only 2 wires coming from the terminating keypads, does this change the number of databus units I would need? There are a total of 9 keypads that are connected in series that terminate at the basement panel. Also I like the buccanon strip idea... does this make things easier or more painful? some of the zones have 10 windows that need to be connected. Do you know the best place to pick these up? Thanks in advance.

I'm not to sure on that but I don't think keypads wired in series are going to work. They are not all homerun to the wiring panels? The databus hub has 9 ports, 1 needs to be run to the upstairs databus hub. Based on what you said earlier 5 M1XIN + 4 keypads all to downstairs = 9 and you only have 8 ports left on the database hub in the basement, thus the need for the 2nd one. If you have 9 keypads, that instead of the original 4, you are going to need 3 M1DBH downstairs. You might want to go ahead and download the elk manual and start reading before you purchase. It will help you get a better understanding of how the databus works. I picked up my buccanon strips from home depot. It's a bit of a pain at firsst to loop all the wiring but it is much easier to track down a problem and you don't have to cut any more wire.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

 

[Peter_H]

I would just back up Peter H on the databus hubs. They are very very much worth it as far as installation ease. You might have an issue, though, with wire run lengths. The data bus hub connects each item in series and if you get more than about 1000ft of wire out there I think there may be problems. You will need to pull the specs on that. The last item in the series needs to have a resistor on it or you can get data reflection issues.

I think this goes without saying, but I would be very diligint with wire labeling. Figure out a system before you start that will work for the 100 plus wires you appear to be putting in.

I would not set up each individual window as its own zone. It really is of no value and makes for a rediculous amount of wire. I set up banks of windows in my house as zones. Unless you would like to have one special window that you can bypass or put on a separate arming status for opening on nice days.

I would use resistors. If you put them at or near the end of each line, then you know you don't have damaged wires with a short.

You might think about water protection as well. Pull a wire to each water location in the home. Especially the water heater and washing machine. I put an elk water shut off valve in my house as well and wrote a rule to shut off the water 30 minutes after arming away. I know of two people who had massive water leaks that caused 100's of thousands of dollars in damage while they were out to dinner.

Lou thanks for your response. In terms of the windows, I agree that separate windows is insane so I will be setting up the banks of windows. I am thinking about doing the sump pumps and a few other spots for water protection and the second floor washing machine. I will look into the water shutoff valve... sounds like a really good idea. Could I ask you which specific resistors did you use and where can I pick some of those up? Also, did you put these at the device or at the panel? thanks in advance.

Resistors come with your elk panel and wil each of the M1XIN's you use. You will have plenty and don't need to worry about buying more. Otherwise Ratshack would be the place to get more resistors. There is no sense in putting the resistors at the panel. If you are going to use them, they need to go at the end of the run by the sensor.

 

[apostolakisl]

I did mine setup by running cat5 homeruns from each touchpad to the panel. You can also daisy chain them. I think it is best to do the homeruns as it offers you more oportunity to change things in the future. The data bus hub does the daisy chaining for you. Each cat 5 wire caries the signal out to the unit then back to the dbh where it is transfered to the next plug on dbh and on and on.

 

[crowman]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

Thanks for your response. I have calculated the max current draw to the panel and the subpanel and the numbers look as follows:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)
AMPS TOTAL
18 doors 0 0
7 motions 0.035 0.245
19 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.475
1 siren 0.48 0.48
4 smoke Detectors 0.05 0.2
2 CO Detectors 0.08 0.16
12 Window (grp 0 0
1 Heat Sensor 0.3 0.3
4 Arming stations 0.044 0.176
5 Keypads 0.16 0.8
TOTAL 2.836 AMPS

Second Floor Panel (subpanel)

2 Door Contacts 0 0
2 Motions 0.035 0.07
7 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.175
1 Siren 0.48 0.48
5 Smoke Detectos 0.05 0.25
5 CO detectors 0.08 0.4
7 Window Ct. Group 0 0
1 Heat sensor 0.3 0.3
TOTAL 1.675 AMPS

I was looking at the Honeywell Power Products Part Number: HP312CX to add 2.5amps of power at the subpanel. Per your post, I was looking at power distribution modules by elk ELK-PD9... which I guess handles 9 separate devices that are 250mA each max. Is this the best way to get additional power to the panels? The elk website says the M1G is 2.5 Amp power supply w/ 1.5 Amp continuous. Also, from my understanding, door and window contacts do not actually draw current. Please advise! thanks.

 

[Peter_H]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

Thanks for your response. I have calculated the max current draw to the panel and the subpanel and the numbers look as follows:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)
AMPS TOTAL
18 doors 0 0
7 motions 0.035 0.245
19 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.475
1 siren 0.48 0.48
4 smoke Detectors 0.05 0.2
2 CO Detectors 0.08 0.16
12 Window (grp 0 0
1 Heat Sensor 0.3 0.3
4 Arming stations 0.044 0.176
5 Keypads 0.16 0.8
TOTAL 2.836 AMPS

Second Floor Panel (subpanel)

2 Door Contacts 0 0
2 Motions 0.035 0.07
7 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.175
1 Siren 0.48 0.48
5 Smoke Detectos 0.05 0.25
5 CO detectors 0.08 0.4
7 Window Ct. Group 0 0
1 Heat sensor 0.3 0.3
TOTAL 1.675 AMPS

I was looking at the Honeywell Power Products Part Number: HP312CX to add 2.5amps of power at the subpanel. Per your post, I was looking at power distribution modules by elk ELK-PD9... which I guess handles 9 separate devices that are 250mA each max. Is this the best way to get additional power to the panels? Please advise! thanks.

The PD9's make it easy to distribute power. They are not power supplies. Think of the PD9's as a power strip that will allow you to easily plug all of your devices (glass breaks, sirens, motions, CO, etc.) into. You can even get away with not using the PD9's and going the cheaper route of just buchanan strips but the PD9's are worth it since they have overload protection built in. If you are going to get PD9's you should go ahead and just get the PD9HC's. They are the same price and output up to 400mA per circuit.

As far as power supplies, you could get something like the ELK-P412 or something from Altronix. Search my name. I had a thread going about all this power distribution not too long ago. I was in the same boat you are now. It should help clear things up.

 

[crowman]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

Thanks for your response. I have calculated the max current draw to the panel and the subpanel and the numbers look as follows:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)
AMPS TOTAL
18 doors 0 0
7 motions 0.035 0.245
19 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.475
1 siren 0.48 0.48
4 smoke Detectors 0.05 0.2
2 CO Detectors 0.08 0.16
12 Window (grp 0 0
1 Heat Sensor 0.3 0.3
4 Arming stations 0.044 0.176
5 Keypads 0.16 0.8
TOTAL 2.836 AMPS

Second Floor Panel (subpanel)

2 Door Contacts 0 0
2 Motions 0.035 0.07
7 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.175
1 Siren 0.48 0.48
5 Smoke Detectos 0.05 0.25
5 CO detectors 0.08 0.4
7 Window Ct. Group 0 0
1 Heat sensor 0.3 0.3
TOTAL 1.675 AMPS

I was looking at the Honeywell Power Products Part Number: HP312CX to add 2.5amps of power at the subpanel. Per your post, I was looking at power distribution modules by elk ELK-PD9... which I guess handles 9 separate devices that are 250mA each max. Is this the best way to get additional power to the panels? Please advise! thanks.

The PD9's make it easy to distribute power. They are not power supplies. Think of the PD9's as a power strip that will allow you to easily plug all of your devices (glass breaks, sirens, motions, CO, etc.) into. You can even get away with not using the PD9's and going the cheaper route of just buchanan strips but the PD9's are worth it since they have overload protection built in. If you are going to get PD9's you should go ahead and just get the PD9HC's. They are the same price and output up to 400mA per circuit.

As far as power supplies, you could get something like the ELK-P412 or something from Altronix. Search my name. I had a thread going about all this power distribution not too long ago. I was in the same boat you are now. It should help clear things up.

So if I want to use the PD9H modules, how exactly do I connect the external power supply to this? I see that there is an "optional 12V DC plug in power supply" but I am not sure how that would factor in with external power supply... I think that it may be easier for me to use the buchanan strips since i have so many devices that are a low power draw that add up to a large overall amperage, I think I may break the bank with the PD9s. Thoughts?

I am a little confused about how the buchanan strips would come into play if I am using zone expansion modules. Is there not just a way to add more juice to the panel via another power supply?

 

[Peter_H]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

Thanks for your response. I have calculated the max current draw to the panel and the subpanel and the numbers look as follows:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)
AMPS TOTAL
18 doors 0 0
7 motions 0.035 0.245
19 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.475
1 siren 0.48 0.48
4 smoke Detectors 0.05 0.2
2 CO Detectors 0.08 0.16
12 Window (grp 0 0
1 Heat Sensor 0.3 0.3
4 Arming stations 0.044 0.176
5 Keypads 0.16 0.8
TOTAL 2.836 AMPS

Second Floor Panel (subpanel)

2 Door Contacts 0 0
2 Motions 0.035 0.07
7 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.175
1 Siren 0.48 0.48
5 Smoke Detectos 0.05 0.25
5 CO detectors 0.08 0.4
7 Window Ct. Group 0 0
1 Heat sensor 0.3 0.3
TOTAL 1.675 AMPS

I was looking at the Honeywell Power Products Part Number: HP312CX to add 2.5amps of power at the subpanel. Per your post, I was looking at power distribution modules by elk ELK-PD9... which I guess handles 9 separate devices that are 250mA each max. Is this the best way to get additional power to the panels? Please advise! thanks.

The PD9's make it easy to distribute power. They are not power supplies. Think of the PD9's as a power strip that will allow you to easily plug all of your devices (glass breaks, sirens, motions, CO, etc.) into. You can even get away with not using the PD9's and going the cheaper route of just buchanan strips but the PD9's are worth it since they have overload protection built in. If you are going to get PD9's you should go ahead and just get the PD9HC's. They are the same price and output up to 400mA per circuit.

As far as power supplies, you could get something like the ELK-P412 or something from Altronix. Search my name. I had a thread going about all this power distribution not too long ago. I was in the same boat you are now. It should help clear things up.

So if I want to use the PD9H modules, how exactly do I connect the external power supply to this? I see that there is an "optional 12V DC plug in power supply" but I am not sure how that would factor in with external power supply... I think that it may be easier for me to use the buchanan strips since i have so many devices that are a low power draw that add up to a large overall amperage, I think I may break the bank with the PD9s. Thoughts?

I am a little confused about how the buchanan strips would come into play if I am using zone expansion modules. Is there not just a way to add more juice to the panel via another power supply?

The external power supply is going to be a 12v power supply. You will plug that into the wall and then the 12v out goes to the input on the PD9HC. The PD9HC then has 9 outputs.

It's up to you, they are pretty pricey but keep in mind they have overload protection and a nice LED on each output to indicate that it is working. It was invaluable when I was trying to track down a motion that was not working. Ended up being a bad terminal on the motion sensor.

The buchanan strips and the PD9HC have nothing to do with the zone expansion modules. You are trying to POWER all of your zones. The input expander takes the two input leads for the signal. Take a look at the manual for one of your motion sensors or your glass breaks and you will understand. For example, with a motion, the two signal wires will go to the M1XIN, you then need to power a 12+ and - for the motion to operate. You can either daisy chain the power accross the buchanan strips or wire the power to an output on a PD9HC.

No, there is not a way to simply plug in another wall wort to the Elk and supply it with more juice. This is actually common to all alarms on the market. They output a fixed amperage and when you go over that, you need additional external power supplies.

 

[Digger]

You need to take a serious look at power consumption and routing management as was suggested earlier. How do you plan on running power to all the sensors? Are they all going to route from the main supply(s) terminals? I would highly suggest using power distribution modules. :huh:

Thanks for your response. I have calculated the max current draw to the panel and the subpanel and the numbers look as follows:

Basement Panel (includes basement, 1st floor and garage)
AMPS TOTAL
18 doors 0 0
7 motions 0.035 0.245
19 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.475
1 siren 0.48 0.48
4 smoke Detectors 0.05 0.2
2 CO Detectors 0.08 0.16
12 Window (grp 0 0
1 Heat Sensor 0.3 0.3
4 Arming stations 0.044 0.176
5 Keypads 0.16 0.8
TOTAL 2.836 AMPS

Second Floor Panel (subpanel)

2 Door Contacts 0 0
2 Motions 0.035 0.07
7 Glass Breaks 0.025 0.175
1 Siren 0.48 0.48
5 Smoke Detectos 0.05 0.25
5 CO detectors 0.08 0.4
7 Window Ct. Group 0 0
1 Heat sensor 0.3 0.3
TOTAL 1.675 AMPS

I was looking at the Honeywell Power Products Part Number: HP312CX to add 2.5amps of power at the subpanel. Per your post, I was looking at power distribution modules by elk ELK-PD9... which I guess handles 9 separate devices that are 250mA each max. Is this the best way to get additional power to the panels? Please advise! thanks.

The PD9's make it easy to distribute power. They are not power supplies. Think of the PD9's as a power strip that will allow you to easily plug all of your devices (glass breaks, sirens, motions, CO, etc.) into. You can even get away with not using the PD9's and going the cheaper route of just buchanan strips but the PD9's are worth it since they have overload protection built in. If you are going to get PD9's you should go ahead and just get the PD9HC's. They are the same price and output up to 400mA per circuit.

As far as power supplies, you could get something like the ELK-P412 or something from Altronix. Search my name. I had a thread going about all this power distribution not too long ago. I was in the same boat you are now. It should help clear things up.

So if I want to use the PD9H modules, how exactly do I connect the external power supply to this? I see that there is an "optional 12V DC plug in power supply" but I am not sure how that would factor in with external power supply... I think that it may be easier for me to use the buchanan strips since i have so many devices that are a low power draw that add up to a large overall amperage, I think I may break the bank with the PD9s. Thoughts?

I am a little confused about how the buchanan strips would come into play if I am using zone expansion modules. Is there not just a way to add more juice to the panel via another power supply?

You can put more than one PD9 on a power supply if the supply has a large enough output. As long as you do not exceed the individual or total output ratings you should be fine. One advantage of the PD9 over the terminal blocks is the internal PTC protection should you have a short circuit on one line the PTC will open. With the terminal blocks you lose everything on that block until you have time to correct the problem. It may never ever happen though. I had one customer that bought 4 or 5 so that each device went to an individual output on a PD9 to keep the wiring neat and also because he wanted it to look cool when he opened up his cabinet.

At the very least I would (my opinion) break things up into groups with PTC or fuse protection so you can isolate a problem should you ever have one.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

With the size of your installation and its related wiring distances you need to break up the main power supply(s) runs. For instance if you take the first method in the drawing below, if ANY of the wiring shorts to one single device, you take down the ENTIRE supply (after drawing the fused two amps through your wiring/device).

In the second case you will only take down the 'leg' going to the individual single feed from the power distribution supply's output (which is fused at a lot lower amperage).

You can have multiple devices off of one power distribution output, just make sure you don't exceed 80% of the fused rating. This would be a lot safer and give you a place to terminate the power distribution runs to all those devices as well.

You can also fuse the runs, or combined runs with in-line fuse holders, but this can get messy when terminating a lot of devices.

JMO :huh: