ELK install by general security installer?

cgull

Member
Greetings! My wife and I are building a custom house and the builder has a preferred person who does all of his security system installs. I think I'm going with the ELK M1G and although I want to add HA functionality down the road myself, I don't want to install and hook up all the sensors needed for the basic security functionality of the M1G.

So that leads to my question: Is the ELK M1G similar enough to other more basic security systems where I could simply have the builder's security guy install the sensors and connect them? If it isn't that difficult to wire up all the sensors, would he need to know how to program the M1G? If so, I'm thinking I could handle this if it came down to it.

I'm sure this is a naive question but I would appreciate any help with this!
 
Greetings! My wife and I are building a custom house and the builder has a preferred person who does all of his security system installs. I think I'm going with the ELK M1G and although I want to add HA functionality down the road myself, I don't want to install and hook up all the sensors needed for the basic security functionality of the M1G.

So that leads to my question: Is the ELK M1G similar enough to other more basic security systems where I could simply have the builder's security guy install the sensors and connect them? If it isn't that difficult to wire up all the sensors, would he need to know how to program the M1G? If so, I'm thinking I could handle this if it came down to it.

I'm sure this is a naive question but I would appreciate any help with this!
The burglary sensors are the same, whether they are for an ELK or for any common system. So, yes, your security guy could install and wire the sensors. However, wiring the ELK panel is a concern. It is not difficult, but since he is not familiar with it he may want to charge you extra for the termination. And programming is entirely different. Again, it is not difficult, but he may not have an experience with this and may want to charge extra for this.

You could have him install the sensors, and other "field" equipment and leave the panel wires for you to terminate. Or just talk to him to see what kind of deal you can work out.
 
Greetings! My wife and I are building a custom house and the builder has a preferred person who does all of his security system installs. I think I'm going with the ELK M1G and although I want to add HA functionality down the road myself, I don't want to install and hook up all the sensors needed for the basic security functionality of the M1G.

So that leads to my question: Is the ELK M1G similar enough to other more basic security systems where I could simply have the builder's security guy install the sensors and connect them? If it isn't that difficult to wire up all the sensors, would he need to know how to program the M1G? If so, I'm thinking I could handle this if it came down to it.

I'm sure this is a naive question but I would appreciate any help with this!


The ELK is a security panel First, and a HA controller second. So Yes any security installer should have the basic skills to install one. B) and for programming it is not that hard, espc. if you have elkrp which is the free programming software which can be downloaded from their website for installers, if you are going to DIY you will need to setup an account on their site and provide them the serial number of your m1 and they will give you access to the downloads. I personally would just have them install all the sensors and wires to keypad locations and install and program the panel myself. Make sure if they are using sensors with EOLR's built in they use the right ones for the M1. download the manual and read over it a bit maybe even give them a copy to see how confidant they are with it.

http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/M1_Installa...ming_Manual.pdf
 
+1 - have him run the wire, and install the contact sensors, but buy the M1 and install it yourself.

You're going to have to learn how to use it - part of that is understanding how it's hooked up.

Put the time in now, before any wires are run. You'll think of a lot more locations to run wire than the LV guy will. This is an extremely important concept - you need to run the wires for future expansion now, while it's extremely easy (before drywall is up).
 
The only thing I'd add to this, as a "pro", is that if you're looking to save bread (and who could blame you?), it's unfair to expect the security installer to eat it. For example, if you're going to have him terminate to the Elk board, either he should make a profit on providing the panel (as opposed to you buying online and giving it to him) OR you provide it with the understanding that he has NO obligation to warranty it. Also, if he put's in sensors (and tests them) and you terminate to the panel yourself, he has NO obligation to warranty any part of the system (sensors included). Also, if you expect him to provide the panel, terminate it and do initial programming AND you've requested that he works with unfamiliar gear, he has the right to charge you a premium to do so. Fair is fair...
 
The only thing I'd add to this, as a "pro", is that if you're looking to save bread (and who could blame you?), it's unfair to expect the security installer to eat it. For example, if you're going to have him terminate to the Elk board, either he should make a profit on providing the panel (as opposed to you buying online and giving it to him) OR you provide it with the understanding that he has NO obligation to warranty it. Also, if he put's in sensors (and tests them) and you terminate to the panel yourself, he has NO obligation to warranty any part of the system (sensors included). Also, if you expect him to provide the panel, terminate it and do initial programming AND you've requested that he works with unfamiliar gear, he has the right to charge you a premium to do so. Fair is fair...

I agree with Anthony. Though I knew I could wire up the panel myself, I didn't want to run into issues when I called the alarm company (who also does the central monitoring) if there was a problem. They didn't have any problem with me buying all the Elk stuff, but they supplied the wiring, sensors, smokes, CO, etc. I also had them supply and install the cellular communications unit. Sure, it cost a little more, but I thought it was fair to the installation company to let them make some profit on the non-Elk items. It's always been my belief that the best outcome is when both parties feel the outcome is fair.

It did take the installer a little extra time since they never worked with the Elk, but they did a good install. Plus, the two techs were so impressed with the Elk, they are going to install it in their homes.

They did the basic programming to get the alarm operational, but I've done all the other programming in RP.

Good luck with the build. It's an exhausting, but fun ride.

Kevin
 
Buy the ELK system and set it up on a test bench (your kitchen table for example) and start playing with it. Program some zones, the siren, timers, voice annoucements, etc. It's really easy and fun. Buy some temp probes and have them wired in places like outside on a north wall and the attic.

Let the installer do all the wiring and connect everything to the M1 and give you a list of all the zones and connections. Then with the installer start defining the zones and testing everything. Your help will reduce his overall time and your familarity with the system will allow you make good design decisions.
 
Thanks for all the feedback! I'll talk with the installer to see if he's comfortable connecting the sensors to the M1 and doing the programming (thanks for the link to the manual mustang!) . If he doesn't want to do the programming, I'll still ask him to install the sensors and run the wire but do the programming myself. Is connecting the wires from the sensors to the M1 a straightforward process (not including programming)? I'm guessing there is a place on the M1 for all inputs and the sensor wires would be plugged in to that...shouldn't be much different than most other alarm systems hopefully. Once plugged in, I would then program what inputs correspond to what sensors right? I'm going to watch the installation videos and look over the manual tonight...

If he wants to do everything (sensor install, wire termination to the M1, and the programming) that is completely understandable and is something I'm willing to pay a premium for. And as Anthony pointed out, I would not expect any obligation to warranty the M1 or the sensors. This might be the better option due to what Kevin brings up about the liability and relationship with the monitoring company. I will ask the builder if the installer also offers monitoring plans (I'm guessing he does). Monitoring via cell communications is something we're definitely interested in.


We don't break ground until next month so I have some time to decide what additional things I want to do...at this point I'm trying to get a general idea of the direction I want to head for the security system so we can get the best estimate for what this whole thing will cost.
 
Hi, Glenn.

Our home, finished 12/07, was also a custom build that we designed ourselves (Thank you ChiefArchitect v9). Thankfully, because of a lot of research and studying, there are very few items that I left out or regret not doing. One, though is that I didn't specify CAT5 for the alarm keypads, so the installer just ran regular wire. Plus, I should have run wiring so I could put microphones at the keypads.

CT is a great place for information. I spent a lot of time reading here. It's a wonderful community and many of the members give selflessly or their time helping the "blind", like me.

Good luck,

Kevin
 
Buy the ELK system and set it up on a test bench (your kitchen table for example) and start playing with it. Program some zones, the siren, timers, voice annoucements, etc. It's really easy and fun. Buy some temp probes and have them wired in places like outside on a north wall and the attic.

Let the installer do all the wiring and connect everything to the M1 and give you a list of all the zones and connections. Then with the installer start defining the zones and testing everything. Your help will reduce his overall time and your familarity with the system will allow you make good design decisions.

Great idea! Once I talk with installer about the M1 and decide for myself this is the path I want to head down (I'm 95% sure about this) then I'll go ahead and order so I can start figuring it out. That way I'll know a whole lot more about the system when it comes time to connect the sensors.
 
Hi, Glenn.

Our home, finished 12/07, was also a custom build that we designed ourselves (Thank you ChiefArchitect v9). Thankfully, because of a lot of research and studying, there are very few items that I left out or regret not doing. One, though is that I didn't specify CAT5 for the alarm keypads, so the installer just ran regular wire. Plus, I should have run wiring so I could put microphones at the keypads.

CT is a great place for information. I spent a lot of time reading here. It's a wonderful community and many of the members give selflessly or their time helping the "blind", like me.

Good luck,

Kevin

We also designed our house from scratch but definitely had a LOT of help from family, the builder, and others...I tried using Google Sketchup for the outside views but had limited success on the inside. The whole process has taken several years (long story) and I feel I left the HA/security/audio to the end so I'm scrambling at the last minute to get it all figured out. I'm about to post a couple questions in the other forums in CT b/c my head is spinning with all this stuff!! I definitely want to get this right but am planning to run lots of conduit and extra RJ45 just in case!

Thanks again!
 
Have the security guy run the wiring and install the window/door sensors. Make sure he clearly labels everything in the central closet. Connect the Elk yourself. If you are a tinkerer, you will benefit from having made all the panel connections yourself since you will then be familiar with the system.

I recently have pretty much finished my install - very easy to do if you are at all technically-inclined. And I say this as someone who has never installed or dealt with a security system before.

One idea: I had the wiring dude run cat5e to motion detector locations and put a 1-gang box at each. I finished the install of these using 4 conductors for the motion, 4 more for the small 32ohm Elk speakers. I've got eight of these locations and have been pleased with the results. Plenty loud with the panel driving all 8. The wife has actually asked me turn the volume down a lot.

Did I mention make sure everything is clearly labeled in the closet?

CIMG2238.jpg
 
AceCannon,
That is a unique way of mounting a motion with the SP12F speaker.

With 8 of the SP12F speakers, do you have a good sound saturation throughout your house?
 
AceCannon,
That is a unique way of mounting a motion with the SP12F speaker.

With 8 of the SP12F speakers, do you have a good sound saturation throughout your house?

Yes we can hear voice messages throughout the house very well. This is with volume set to 3 (max is 7). I've been quite pleased with these little speakers.

Heh the alarm volume is set max and it is NOT subtle.
 
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