elk m1 databus hub retrofit issues

[dhiren]

Hey Folks,
 
Need some help and i'm at wits end trying to figure this out. I have an elk m1 gold panel and have two keypads, serial expander, elk upb pim. I've had this setup for about the last 8 months and everything was working properly and devices were connected to the main panel bus. I decided to install an elk m1 dbhr so i could add a zwave module (m1xzlw) and wire the devices correctly through the dbhr.
 
after trying various things, I have been unable to get the panel to see the keypad 1 (navigator) via the dbhr. Message everytime on the keypad shows - waiting to connect to panel.The keypad has power but elk keeps saying keypad module 1 is missing. Tried to enrol bus but still shows missing.  I've connected just the keypad and the wireless expander module. Both devices are connected to individual branches on dbhr  and have jumpers on both the devices as well as the dbhr.   The wireless expander is working correctly but the keypad refuses to show.

I connected the keypad back to the main panel and removed the jumpers and everything is working correctly. I'm obviously doing something wrong but for the life of me cant figure it out. All the wiring seems correct, jumpers are in the correct places ( on the elk panel, jp3 on the dbhr jp1 and on the keypad, jp1 rs485.)
 
Any ideas
 
Thanks
 
 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Not sure exactly how you have this hooked up, but here is how I connected everything using a DBHR in my friend's house.  Hopefully it will help as it also shows the correct jumper settings in the M1 and the DBHR.

 

[dhiren]

Not sure exactly how you have this hooked up, but here is how I connected everything using a DBHR in my friend's house.  Hopefully it will help as it also shows the correct jumper settings in the M1 and the DBHR.

hubwiring.JPG

Thank you for posting that . I have confirmed that My wiring looks similar specifically with the keypad. Did you terminate jp3 on the elk panel ?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Yes

 

[dhiren]

Not sure what i'm doing wrong then ? Right now , the only device hooked up is the elk nav keypad. Here's the steps i've done so far.
 
1.)terminated jp3 on elk panel
2.)terminated jp1 on the dbhr
3.)hooked up 4 wires from the keypad to first branch on dbhr and terminated jumper 2, nothing else is terminated on the dbhr
4.) Keypad has jumper on jp1 
 
I boot up the system, keypad turns on but all it shows is "waiting to connect with panel" and a button for demo mode.
When i look in ELK RP > ENROLL.. > it shows that keypad 1 is missing.
 
Appreciate the help

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

When you did the troubleshooting step above and had 'just' the keypad in place and got it to work, were you using the exact same wiring as you were using the DBHR?

 

[dhiren]

When you did the troubleshooting step above and had 'just' the keypad in place and got it to work, were you using the exact same wiring as you were using the DBHR?

Yes, used the same wiring that i used to connect the keypad directly to the elk m1 panel . I then used that wire to connect the keypad to the dbhr.
I hope that answers your question 
 
Interestingly, i was dinking around this evening and decided to started fresh. I hooked up the dbhr to the panel, put a jumper on jp3 on the panel, jumper on dbhr jp1  and then connected the nav keypad to the dbhr and jumper terminated jp1 on the keypad and believe it or not, it worked. So i shut everything off and then proceeded to add the rest of the devices to the dbhr but once i booted the system , it failed in connecting to the keypad.
 
Do I need to change the keypad address or run the enroll process in a certain manner, just trying to see what  I may be doing wrong.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Ah, you might be having an address conflict with all of your devices connected.  Make sure each device has a unique address!

 

[dhiren]

Thank you , that makes sense.
 
Would you/anyone know if the address conflict will go away once the offending device is disconnected ?  In my case, I decided to recreate the working scenario by unplugging everything else and power cycled the system with just the keypad on the dbhr but no luck. 
 
I plugged everything back onto the main panel bus and had to do a enroll devices which got everything to working again.
 
I suspect the address conflict would be caused by the m1zlw as that is the only device that is new to the system. I'll try hooking up everything again without the zlw now that everything is working  back again

 

[tmbrown97]

Conflicts come from like-devices generally; there are a few different types - such as keypads, serial expanders, input expanders, output expanders, etc - so you can have keypads at addresses 1,2,3,4,5 and you can have serial expanders at 1,2,3,4,5 - but you cant' have two keypads at 1, which is where they default... so with each one you connect IIRC you have to change it to another non-1 address, then add the next - or something along those lines.  If you're having trouble with only one item connected, then there's no chance of address conflict, so it's likely then a termination issue.

 

[Del91574]

TL;DR
 
But with DBHR's pay attention to the terminations specifically. If you terminate a branch prior to the "cascade" it prevents the devices downstream from acting appropriately.
 
DBHR's, as a "best practice" I've adopted for installation is to pair up devices per branch (or get myself to 2 terminations per branch at the devices first) then cascade to the next port until I have a pair of jumpers on the bus.
 
Unfortunately, with the retrofit and takeover market in state, we've become very adept at getting the 485 working on older topologies.

 

[dhiren]

Thank you all for helping. This keeps getting wierder  :blush:  and i think i may have caused myself a lot more grief 
 
Here's what's happened since my last post
 
I followed DELinstallation's tip to get 2 devices per branch and with jumpers on the end devices (both homerun). I got the nav keypad & the GE wireless extender  on one branch I then put the upb pim and the zlw device on the second. Turned the system on, enrolled the zlw and everything worked like a charm. I was able to add the zwave devices into elk and was able to control the thermostat . Keypad was functional as well as all other bus devices.
 
After about 20 minutes, the panel started letting me know that bus devices were missing . So i started back-tracing and connected just the keypad to the DBHR but no luck. I then proceeded to connect the devices directly to the  panel bus (which was how it worked in the past) but is  now no longer working. I removed all other devices except the keypad and still no luck. Long story short - security system is currently non functional
 
 
Any ideas on what it might be ? Not very fluent with circuits so a bit out of my depth 

 

[dhiren]

UPDATE - it looks like issue might be with the NAV keypad. I was able to hook up the kp2 keypad directly to the bus and enroll again and the keypad is functional. 
Not sure what's up with the dbhr but I will spend some time over the weekend to get that hooked up. 

 

[Del91574]

Have you checked the terminator on the board itself? Too few and you'll start getting funky data bus issues. Too many (or improperly located) and the data won't cascade to the next port on the DBHR.

 

[dhiren]

Just to close this off - it turns out that DBHR was defective. I had Larry from Renpark Security pay a visit who helped straighten out everything. He confirmed that the DBHR was not sending data signals for some reason and hooked all up the components by daisy chaining them and everything is now fully functional.
 
If anyone's looking for assistance with their panel up here around Toronto, i'd give Larry a call - awesome to work with and knows lot about the elk panels