Elk M1 garage and house

[snakevargas]

I'll start by explaining what I want rather than how I think I should set it up, just in case my assumptions are wrong.

1) I have one keypad
2) I have an attached garage and the main house
3) I want to arm the garage during the day while someone is home.
4) I want to arm the garage + main house during the night when we're sleeping
5) I want to arm the garage + main house while we're away
6) I never want to arm the main house without arming the garage

The way I've currently done this is by setting the garage zones to "Burglar Entry/Exit" and main house zones to "Burglar Interior Night Delay". When I want to just arm the garage, I put the panel in stay mode. When I want to arm the garage + house I put the panel in "stay night" mode. This seems to be one acceptable solution.

The things I don't like about this:

1) I'd rather eliminate night mode and just have one "stay" mode. The benefit of this is that I think it's more obvious to arm and disarm the system for the main house if the light is lit when the main house is armed and unlit when the main house is not armed. It's also simpler to not have to differentiate between Stay and Stay Night mode.

2) I'd like to use one of the F-keys to toggle the state of arming the Garage. I'd like to use the light on the F-key to indicate the toggle state of the garage. This way the garage has a separate status indicator from the main house.

This is what I'm thinking of doing:

1) Main House = area 1
2) Garage = area 2
3) Keypad = area 1
4) Rules:

# when F1 is pressed and the garage is not armed, then arm the garage
WHENEVER F1 KEY ON ANY KEYPAD ACTIVATES
AND Area 2 ARM STATE = DISARMED
AND Area 2 ARM BURGLAR STATUS IS READY
THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO STAY IMMEDIATELY

# when F1 is pressed and the garage is armed, then disarm it
WHENEVER F1 KEY ON ANY KEYPAD ACTIVATES
AND Area 2 ARM STATE = ARMED
AND NO ALARM, ANY AREA IS ACTIVE
AND Area 1 ARM STATE = DISARMED
THEN DISARM AREA(S) 2 IMMEDIATELY

# when main house is armed, arm the garage
WHENEVER Area 1 ARM STATE BECOMES ARMED
AND Area 2 ARM BURGLAR STATUS IS READY
THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO STAY IMMEDIATELY

5) Keypad State for F1 = 1175, Area 2 Arm state

Is this a reasonable plan? Is there a better way to achieve what I want? Am I wanting something that is a bad idea?

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm sorry I'm too tired to stay up and elaborate on this - but you're on the right track.  The garage should be its own zone as you've indicated; you use rules that follow the arming state of the house to arm/disarm the garage.  I haven't tried the keypad state for the indicator - I out of habit would set the function button to a Toggle Output State of a phantom output; I'd also have the indicator light follow that output status.  Then I'd set rules that on turning output on, do X; on turning output off, do X; then on Area 1 Arm, Turn Output X On, etc.
 
I might be tempted to do the force arm too on the garage - so it arms whatever it can even if a door is open.
 
I can't say off hand which rules are better - try yours, and if they don't work, maybe try the output option.  Hopefully others can chime in - this has been discussed a good handful of times over the last few years.

 

[newalarm]

We have ours set to different areas. Garage, one area, house other area. This works great and is really simple. Basically, when you leave the garage, you arm it, and lock it up. It stays armed no matter what you do to the house area. When you come back to the garage, you disable the garage and proceed. Only thing, you need to remember to arm garage. If you left house and forgot to arm it, but armed the house, it would not be armed.
 
I was hoping to fix this by giving the garage a rule that says "if garage motion 1 or garage motion 2 is not tripped after 30 min, then arm garage away mode". This would be helpful if we forgot to arm the garage, or if i had unlocked the doors, but was in the house for extended period and someone sneaked in. We currently don't have magnetic sensor on entry door (not garage doors) so we would not have the issue of the zone not being secure while arming.

 

[snakevargas]

One thing that I don't think my rules address is to disarm the garage if the alarm is sounding. Obviously I don't want the crook to be able to simply push F1 and terminate the alarm. I want it to require a valid code to be entered first. I couldn't tell from the WHENEVER rules which rule could be used to indicate that a valid code has just been entered.

The rule I have in mind is something like this:

WHENEVER VALID USER CODE IS ENTERED
AND ALARM, AREA 2 IS ACTIVE
THEN DISARM AREA(S) 2 IMMEDIATELY

But I didn't see such a WHENEVER clause in the list.

Any suggestions?

 

[Del91574]

I wouldn't put disarming on the F key. Arming, sure, I have that on many systems I've put in with multiple partitions.
 
The hardest part is getting the second partition to be controllable with no outside influence and keep the system user friendly.
 
I think part of the equation is what protection is installed in the garage? It might end up putting a bunch of points active 24/7, as reading your post, the bulk would never be disarmed.

 

[snakevargas]

 

I wouldn't put disarming on the F key. Arming, sure, I have that on many systems I've put in with multiple partitions.
 
The hardest part is getting the second partition to be controllable with no outside influence and keep the system user friendly.
 
I think part of the equation is what protection is installed in the garage? It might end up putting a bunch of points active 24/7, as reading your post, the bulk would never be disarmed.

The garage includes two garage doors (which are rarely opened), one back 3'6" door (which is occasionally opened) and two windows which will probably never be opened.

Because I do occasionally use the doors, I would like them to be easy enough to arm/disarm.

I don't see the issue with allowing disarm via the f-key. If someone has gained access to the main house and the keypad without tripping the alarm, then they already have the run of the house. The primary reason for alarming the garage is to alert those of us in the house that the garage has been breached (and for a siren to scare off the intruder). I think the key is in not allowing F-key disarm of the garage while the alarm siren is blaring or the entry delay/beep is active.

Then again, I'm new at this and you guys are experienced, so I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Del91574]

I wouldn't allow disarming via a keypress...also, since you're considering multiple areas on a single keypad and multiple users, I wouldn't do it, too many fingers in the pot/users involved and possibility for errors,most likely unintentional. Disarming should always involve a code or credential, with the last resort being the least secure, a RF keyfob. It's more about making the system perform an "are you sure?" before you disarm.
 
I'd probably link the area and have it follow the arm state of the house via a phantom output and a rule or two. Since I don't have RP on this laptop, I can't verify, but I'd put a F-key armed illumination event in and arming command, and if push came to shove, put a command for another F key to log on to that partition for silence and disarm after alarm, if needed, again, requiring a code to do such.
 
That said, IMHO it's going to end up making the system more complex for end users and possibly contribute to a false alarm, IE: house disarmed and attached garage door opened by accident, no indication via keypad or other interface that those doors are "on" besides the F-key.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'd imagine you could make the code along the lines of:
 
on keypress (or output turns off, etc)
AND alarm not sounding (not sure exact wording but there's one for that)
then disarm zone 2.

 

[Big517]

Instead of an alarm (if this Is really just so people in the house know if the garage is being used) just have the elk chime/announce that there is motion detected in the garage. .. I use announcements for my garage to advise if it's open closed and when it's been left open. If security is the main concern then just make it an entry type zone so you have a Grace period to disarm.

 

[video321]

I might be tempted to do the force arm too on the garage - so it arms whatever it can even if a door is open.

One thing to note when arming via rules, the M1 will automatically bypass any zone when the system is armed and bring it back into the system if it becomes secure.
 
I do something similar with an "interior area" which basically consists of contacts on things like our master bedroom closets, dresser drawers, etc. that a thief would run to. Via rules the area is armed/disarmed based on the arming status of the main area (area 1). In a nut shell... when the house is armed away the interior area is armed - when we disarm or arm to any stay mode, the interior area is disarmed. All done via rules with no F-key illumination... as simple as could be. Something you may want to consider integrating into your own set of rules to help automate your goal.
 
Last, I would definitely have a simple way to disarm the garage even if an alarm was going off - I don't know why you wouldn't want to have that ability.

 

[newalarm]

I am not sure whey this needs to be so complicated. If you have the garage as a separate zone, then arm it when you leave, and lock it, or set it to auto arm itself when no motion is detected. I guess you can have a function key do disarm the auto arm in case you were in and out of the garage.