ELK-M1KP temperature report to Alarm Relay?

[jon102034050]

Hey all - tried searching for this, but came up mostly empty.  I have recently added an ELK-M1KP in my basement for convenience while I'm downstairs.  After installing it, I realized that it reports temperature (unlike my ELK-M1KP2's that I have elsewhere in the home).  Is it possible for me to use this as a temperature monitoring device to report to Alarm Relay if it gets below a certain temperature?  Or do I need to purchase an ELK-M1ZTS for this?  My main motivation for this is that I can get a discount on my insurance if I have low temperature reporting enabled on my system.
 
Thanks!

 

[drvnbysound]

I don't know (but don't think so) if the built in temp can be read by Alarm Relay directly, but I can think of a work-around... 
 
Write a rule that triggers an output when your temp reaches X temp. Connect said output to a zone input. 

 

[jon102034050]

I don't know (but don't think so) if the built in temp can be read by Alarm Relay directly, but I can think of a work-around... 
 
Write a rule that triggers an output when your temp reaches X temp. Connect said output to a zone input. 

 
This is a really good idea.  Now, please excuse my ignorance, but I don't want to make any assumptions.  When you say "connect said output to a zone input", you mean a physical connection (a 22/4 piece of wire) between the zone input and output, right?  Then, how should my zone be defined?  

 

[RAL]

This is a really good idea.  Now, please excuse my ignorance, but I don't want to make any assumptions.  When you say "connect said output to a zone input", you mean a physical connection (a 22/4 piece of wire) between the zone input and output, right?  Then, how should my zone be defined?  

 
Yes, you need a physical wire between an output relay and the zone input.  You can't trigger an alarm condition directly using a rule, only zone inputs can do that.  So the way around it is to turn on an output relay using a rule, which in turn can be sensed by a zone input.
 
There are several choices for the zone definition, such as Freeze Alarm and Heat Alarm.  You could also use Auxiliary1 or Auxiliary2, but they don't create an audible alarm or display on the keypad.  But some additional rules could be used to do that.

 

[jon102034050]

Yes, you need a physical wire between an output relay and the zone input.  You can't trigger an alarm condition directly using a rule, only zone inputs can do that.  So the way around it is to turn on an output relay using a rule, which in turn can be sensed by a zone input.
 
There are several choices for the zone definition, such as Freeze Alarm and Heat Alarm.  You could also use Auxiliary1 or Auxiliary2, but they don't create an audible alarm or display on the keypad.  But some additional rules could be used to do that.

 
Great, thanks!  Next I just have to wait for my m1xin to come (should be tomorrow) before I can start testing this out.  How do you recommend I test a low level temperature sensor?  An ice pack?  Any better ideas?

 

[RAL]

Great, thanks!  Next I just have to wait for my m1xin to come (should be tomorrow) before I can start testing this out.  How do you recommend I test a low level temperature sensor?  An ice pack?  Any better ideas?

 
Rather than lowering the temperature of the keypad significantly, I'd test my rules by substituting a temperature value that's near the actual room temperature.  Then use the heating or A/C system to raise or lower the temperature slightly until the rule triggers.   Once you are satisfied that things work, then change the rule to the true temperature you want to use.
 
But if you really want to test the real conditions, the technology-friendly way is to use some cold spray and spray it on the temperature sensor on the keypad circuit board.  The temperature sensor appears to be the component labeled U3 on the lower left side of the keypad circuit board (when viewed from the rear), just below the prox reader location. 
 
If you don't have cold spray, another way would be to place a cold pack the bottom of a small cooler, place a towel over the cold pack to help keep things dry, and then set the keypad on top of the towel and close the cooler.   You'll need several feet of slack in the keypad cable to reach from its wall location into the cooler.

 

[Del91574]

You could use the internal KP zone and open collector with no additional hardware or real cabling.
 
Keep in mind, the keypad thermistors aren't too accurate and do bounce around a bit. Especially if there's a draft in the wall via unsealed penetrations or the cable entry holes.

 

[jon102034050]

Can you explain this a bit further? My keypad is on an internal wall, and it has proven to be fairly accurate with the comparisons I've done so far, at least accurate enough to tell if the heat isn't working.

 

[Del91574]

Had to dig out the docs....been a long time since I've played with the trigger on the KP.
 
You'd need a RBSN or similar relay at the KP and connect to the KP zone. Basically it'll cost you $7 and no cabling or exceptionally difficult wiring at the KP. Use the XIN and other hardware at the panel.

 

[jon102034050]

Yes, you need a physical wire between an output relay and the zone input.  You can't trigger an alarm condition directly using a rule, only zone inputs can do that.  So the way around it is to turn on an output relay using a rule, which in turn can be sensed by a zone input.
 
There are several choices for the zone definition, such as Freeze Alarm and Heat Alarm.  You could also use Auxiliary1 or Auxiliary2, but they don't create an audible alarm or display on the keypad.  But some additional rules could be used to do that.

 
Can you look over this rule and let me know what you think of it?  I have zone 12 defined as a N/O Freeze Alarm, this is triggered by output 11 (which is wired N/O).  
 
whenever every 600 seconds
and Basement Keypad actual temperature is less than 50 DEG F
then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) on for 10 secs
then send email message to EMAIL_ADDR
 
Is there anything you think I'm missing from this?  

 

[drvnbysound]

Can you explain how you have Output11 wired as N/O? Out11 is a voltage output; as such, when activated it will output a 12V DC signal. On it's own, it doesn't act as a contact closure that Zone12 will accept. 

The input zones, actually output a voltage. So unless you've done something different with your OUT11 wiring, you're now also injecting a voltage into Zone12's input. 

If you want to use an onboard output, it would be easiest if you use OUT3; a Form-C relay that has Common, N/O and N/C pins.

 

[jon102034050]

Can you explain how you have Output11 wired as N/O? Out11 is a voltage output; as such, when activated it will output a 12V DC signal. On it's own, it doesn't act as a contact closure that Zone12 will accept. 

The input zones, actually output a voltage. So unless you've done something different with your OUT11 wiring, you're now also injecting a voltage into Zone12's input. 

 
hm, maybe I'm not understanding how this should be wired up then.  I wired output11 on my m1rb (wires on n/o and com) to zone12.  

 

[drvnbysound]

hm, maybe I'm not understanding how this should be wired up then.  I wired output11 on my m1rb (wires on n/o and com) to zone12.  

 
Disregard then. I was assuming you meant OUT11 on the M1G main board. 

 

[jon102034050]

Disregard then. I was assuming you meant OUT11 on the M1G main board. 

 
phew, you had me panicking.  Any feedback on the rule I have in place?  

 

[drvnbysound]

I will ask this, I realize that it's temperature and that it won't change instantly, but why only check every 10 minutes? 
 
I would simplify it, elimiating the time portion and make it: 
 
Whenever Basement Keypad actual temperature is less than 50 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) on for 10 secs
- Then send email message to EMAIL_ADDR
 
This will only happen "ONCE" when the temp drops below. It won't continue to set the output or continue to email, because the event only takes place once... unless the temp is hovering around 50F and keeps going up/down across that threshold, unlikely.