ELK-M1KP temperature report to Alarm Relay?

[jon102034050]

I will ask this, I realize that it's temperature and that it won't change instantly, but why only check every 10 minutes? 
 
I would simplify it, elimiating the time portion and make it: 
 
Whenever Basement Keypad actual temperature is less than 50 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) on for 10 secs
- Then send email message to EMAIL_ADDR
 
This will only happen "ONCE" when the temp drops below. It won't continue to set the output or continue to email, because the event only takes place once... unless the temp is hovering around 50F and keeps going up/down across that threshold, unlikely. 

 
Great point, this is exactly why I was soliciting feedback on the rule  

 

[drvnbysound]

Re-reading the rule, I think the time duration of OUT11 is pretty arbitrary. Reason being, how long does your door have to be open before the M1 picks that up and reports it? 
 
So, if it's turned on for 1 sec, the connected Input Zone should trigger. Having said that, there is no issue with leaving it on for 10 seconds... so ultimately I don't think it really matters... but at least something to think about / consider any time you are selecting such values.  

 

[RAL]

I think I would do it a bit differently.  I think by turning the output ON for 10 seconds and then back off, it may result in another report to Alarm Relay the next time the temperature is checked 10 minutes later.  They might get annoyed at repeated reports for the same condition.
 
Instead, I would turn the output on and leave it on as long as the temperature is below your limit of 50.  Then, use a second rule that turns the output back off once the temperature has increased, say back above 55.  By separating the two rules by a few degrees, it will provide some hysteresis to avoid repeated reports.

 

[Del91574]

I wouldn't do a timed actually. Turn the output on at a certain temp and then off when it exceeds temp +5 or so....for hysteresis and to also get a gauge of a restoral report.....which should allow you to determine if it was a fluke or an actual trip also. The CS shouldn't call on a restoral, only the alarm.

 

[jon102034050]

Re-reading the rule, I think the time duration of OUT11 is pretty arbitrary. Reason being, how long does your door have to be open before the M1 picks that up and reports it? 
 
So, if it's turned on for 1 sec, the connected Input Zone should trigger. Having said that, there is no issue with leaving it on for 10 seconds... so ultimately I don't think it really matters... but at least something to think about / consider any time you are selecting such values.  

This makes sense - probably don't need to have it on for 10 seconds if I choose to go with this method.
 

I think I would do it a bit differently.  I think by turning the output ON for 10 seconds and then back off, it may result in another report to Alarm Relay the next time the temperature is checked 10 minutes later.  They might get annoyed at repeated reports for the same condition.
 
Instead, I would turn the output on and leave it on as long as the temperature is below your limit of 50.  Then, use a second rule that turns the output back off once the temperature has increased, say back above 55.  By separating the two rules by a few degrees, it will provide some hysteresis to avoid repeated reports.

I'm not sure how the elk rules engine works, but wouldn't this mean that the event would continually be running if the temp was below 50 (and the output set to on)?  Are there possibly any issues with this?  How does the event "stop"?  When it goes >50?
 

I wouldn't do a timed actually. Turn the output on at a certain temp and then off when it exceeds temp +5 or so....for hysteresis and to also get a gauge of a restoral report.....which should allow you to determine if it was a fluke or an actual trip also. The CS shouldn't call on a restoral, only the alarm.

So you're saying turn the output on when the temp =50 rather than <50?  

 

[drvnbysound]

Based on above suggestions it would be setup something like... 
 
WHENEVER Basement Keypad actual temperature is less than 50 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) ON
- Then send email message to EMAIL_ADDR
 
Basement Keypad actual temperature is greater than 55 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) OFF

 

[apostolakisl]

drvnbysound, on 21 Dec 2016 - 09:57, said:
Based on above suggestions it would be setup something like...

WHENEVER Basement Keypad actual temperature is less than 50 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) ON
- Then send email message to EMAIL_ADDR

Basement Keypad actual temperature is greater than 55 DEG F
- Then turn TemperatureAlert (OUTPUT 11) OFF

I don't think you can do this. If memory serves me, temperature from a keypad is a secondary condition. In other words it would be

Whenever
Every 5 minutes
And Temp at keypad 1 &lt;50
Then
turn output x on


EDIT: Just checked my RP2. There is no primary "whenever" condition for the KP temps. In other words, temperature at a keypad is not monitored by the Elk logic engine, testing temperature at a keypad is only done upon request (ie every 5 minutes).

Personally, I do the same thing but use my ISY. It does appear to constantly track the temp at each keypad as my ISY program simply states If temp less than 50. The ISY Elk screen shows the temps at all thermostats continuously. I imagine it does have its own built-in query function for temp, but I don't know the interval. I just don't know the exact nature of the communication protocol.

 

[jon102034050]

I don't think you can do this. If memory serves me, temperature from a keypad is a secondary condition. In other words it would be

Whenever
Every 5 minutes
And Temp at keypad 1 &lt;50
Then
turn output x on


EDIT: Just checked my RP2. There is no primary "whenever" condition for the KP temps. In other words, temperature at a keypad is not monitored by the Elk logic engine, testing temperature at a keypad is only done upon request (ie every 5 minutes).

Personally, I do the same thing but use my ISY. It does appear to constantly track the temp at each keypad is my ISY program simply states If temp less than 50. The ISY Elk screen shows the temps at all thermostats. I imagine it does have its own built-in query function for temp, but I don't know the interval.

 
Haha, thank you for posting this, I was looking over this for an embarrassingly long time for this before I came to the realization that this was maybe the case.