Elk M1kp vs M1kpas vs no keypad at all

[mikefamig]

I have been studying and designing an Elk security system for over a month now and the more I learn the more questions I have.
 
Today I am trying to decide on a keypad. My system will have both wireless access and ethernet access. I was all set to use an M1kp which is the most fully featured kp but now I'm thinking that with ethernet access/ELKRP software and a keyfob to arm/disarm the system I really have no need for a keypad at all. I also have a single gang box right next to my front door that is unused that I can put an M1kpas in but I'm not sure that I would use it very often. The single gang box is an abandoned switch box and at a height that you have to bend down to read and children can reach and play with the keys so it's not an ideal location but would be usable.
 
I'd like to benefit from all of your experiences and hear your opinions on keypad use and placement so the questions I'd like to put to the group:
 
Do you think that a keypad necessary?
Do you have one or more kepads?
Where are they placed?
What do you like and dislike about the placement and what would you change?
Do you use them? How often?
 
To sum it up it's a lot of work to cut sheetrock and pull wires and I want to get it right the first time.
 
TIA, Mike.
 
 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Put at least one of the keypads that come with the system inside the wiring closet as there are certain functions you will wind up using, such as clearing a comm trouble to the central station (I had to clear it with the keypad as I could not find that option in RP, might just be me though...).
 
Also, there will be times you need to arm/disarm and perform other functions such as setting serial port that you will need to do without a computer interface.

 

[mikefamig]

Put at least one of the keypads that come with the system inside the wiring closet as there are certain functions you will wind up using, such as clearing a comm trouble to the central station (I had to clear it with the keypad as I could not find that option in RP, might just be me though...).
 
Also, there will be times you need to arm/disarm and perform other functions such as setting serial port that you will need to do without a computer interface.

Good stuff - Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

Any security system, no matter how great or foolproof the integration seems should have a hardwired keypad installed.
 
In the case of the M1, I'd suggest at least a single keypad installed somewhere near the common entry door....negate the false alarm potential before it could possibly happen.
 
I've got 6 keypads installed in my house. :mellow:

 

[tmbrown97]

ElkRMS, M1toGo and eKeypad (quite possibly others) have to mirror a keypad for their functionality - you program the function buttons for a real keypad in RP then when you set up the software you tell it which keypad to mimic - for that reason you need at least one.  Also if your only installed keypad has only 4 Function buttons, that's all your software keypad can have - so it may be worth installing one of the versions with 6 buttons to enable them in software.
 
Also - I've had situations where there was trouble and I couldn't clear it from eKeypad - I didn't try from RMS - but I had to go to a physical keypad to clear the trouble.
 
I personally like the KP2's flushmounted with a speaker behind them - the SP12.  This gives the audio a point of presence that feels natural as it's tied to the alarm interface, not some speaker at the other end of the house.  When you're at a keypad the announcements are coming from that keypad (and all others but you don't really perceive that).  I have other philosophies too - such as, keypads shouldn't be located where someone could look in a window to see them and see their status - very often they're located somewhere central to the house but many windows could be looked in to see if you forgot to arm.  Also I like having them in convenient places for access on the way in/out of the house.  I keep one at the entrance from the garage; one at the front door; and one in the master bedroom.  If it weren't such a nightmare I would've also put a KPAS at the back door too but it wasn't worth the nightmare the wiring would've been.  The purpose of the one in the bedroom is to see the status at a glance; have a panic button nearby when you're sleeping, and if a zone is violated, to see which direction to aim.  Also having several keypads around the house with their associated speakers provides decent distribution of audio, though this house required a few extras just due to size.
 
I'll also say that while the KPNAV seems cool in that it's a touchscreen, I think it has some drawbacks as opposed to a good ol' manual KP2 - things aren't as accessible and IMO it's not as functional - plus you lose the SP12 speaker behind it.

 

[mikefamig]

Thanks all for the insightful advise. It's jsut the kind of help I need at this point.
 
Mike.

 

[Superjer2000]

One comment on the below:  I have some speakers behind some KP2s but I also have some speakers behind the regular 6 function key keypad (KP1?)  It isn't a ready to go mounting solution given that you don't have the pre drilled holes for the SP12s like you do on the KP2, but I just screwed the SP12 into the drywall behind where where I mounted the KP1.  It actually sounds better as there are speaker grills on the KP1 (for the internal buzzer?). 
 
As to the original question, I agree that you still want keypads.  We have 2 X KP1s (or whatever the six function key pads are), 2 X KP2s, and 1 Navigator and we use all of them on a regular basis.  This is on top of the ELK M12Go we use on our kitchen computer and the access we use on the mobile iPads in the house.

ElkRMS, M1toGo and eKeypad (quite possibly others) have to mirror a keypad for their functionality - you program the function buttons for a real keypad in RP then when you set up the software you tell it which keypad to mimic - for that reason you need at least one.  Also if your only installed keypad has only 4 Function buttons, that's all your software keypad can have - so it may be worth installing one of the versions with 6 buttons to enable them in software.
 
Also - I've had situations where there was trouble and I couldn't clear it from eKeypad - I didn't try from RMS - but I had to go to a physical keypad to clear the trouble.
 
I personally like the KP2's flushmounted with a speaker behind them - the SP12.  This gives the audio a point of presence that feels natural as it's tied to the alarm interface, not some speaker at the other end of the house.  When you're at a keypad the announcements are coming from that keypad (and all others but you don't really perceive that).  I have other philosophies too - such as, keypads shouldn't be located where someone could look in a window to see them and see their status - very often they're located somewhere central to the house but many windows could be looked in to see if you forgot to arm.  Also I like having them in convenient places for access on the way in/out of the house.  I keep one at the entrance from the garage; one at the front door; and one in the master bedroom.  If it weren't such a nightmare I would've also put a KPAS at the back door too but it wasn't worth the nightmare the wiring would've been.  The purpose of the one in the bedroom is to see the status at a glance; have a panic button nearby when you're sleeping, and if a zone is violated, to see which direction to aim.  Also having several keypads around the house with their associated speakers provides decent distribution of audio, though this house required a few extras just due to size.
 
I'll also say that while the KPNAV seems cool in that it's a touchscreen, I think it has some drawbacks as opposed to a good ol' manual KP2 - things aren't as accessible and IMO it's not as functional - plus you lose the SP12 speaker behind it.

 

[mikefamig]

I personally like the KP2's flushmounted with a speaker behind them - the SP12.
 
Do you know if the ELKM1TWSF speaker/microphone combination will fit behind the keypad inside of the flush mount adapter? I looked at the specs and the speaker w/mic is about 1/4" deeper than the speaker alone. I plan to be able to listen in to the house and garage and have a few these already on my list of parts.
 
Mike.

 

[tadr]

I have a flushmounted KP2 with a speaker by every entry door (3) plus one in the master bedroom.  We use them every single day.
We also use the elk app on our iphones, but using the keypads is MUCH faster and more reliable.  It is also nice to easily be able to see armed status - when we come up to the master bedroom at night it's a constant reminder to arm the alarm when we see the green light.  Seeing the red light is a nice reminder that the system is armed before opening a door, etc.
 
I would never, ever, ever install another system in my house without having a keypad by every commonly used entry door.  Also, keypads are the only option for guests (house guests or people checking in on the house when we are away) to arm/disarm the system.

 

[snakevargas]

I only have one keypad. It's by the front door. Although it's the one that's used 99% of the time, that remaining 1% can be a real pain (usually it's that damn back door to the garage, that everyone forgets is armed while we're home).

I use KP2 with SP12 behind it, and SP12s installed solo in other strategic locations.

One thing to note is that the entry delay warning beep does not sound through the SP12. It only sounds through the keypad. This causes me a bit of grief with that garage situation. I have a speaker in the garage intended to alert those people who open the back door while the system is armed, but they don't actually hear anything until the entry delay has elapsed and the alarm is blaring. I suppose I could probably add a rule to make some noise on the speakers during the entry delay.

 

[mikefamig]

Am I the only one who's hesitant to cut a hole in the wall for a keypad for fear that I won't like the location after using it for a while? Especially if the wall is wall-papered. It's kind of a big decision.
 
I have a good location for my rear entrance but for the front I have wallpaper and the most convenient spot already has a thermostat and door bell ringer and adding another device is going to look pretty bad. There is also an unused single gang wall switch box next to the door. I could throw a kpas in there but it is at switch height and will be hard to read. I'm going to have to give it some thought.
 
Mike.

 

[tmbrown97]

I fear no drywall.  Worrying about holes wastes time and money - I'll cut whatever holes are necessary to get the job done then have a pro come patch it when I'm done (I can't match texture for crap)... then again I have no wallpaper, and I've never regretted a keypad location.  OK, well I do wish my front-door keypad wasn't right by a piece of furniture that my 20 month old stands on while he presses the Police Dispatch or the "All Lights Off" buttons while I'm trying to cook - but unless I moved them all up 3 feet, there's no fixing that - there's no place left or right that's any better and the alarm has been here longer than that kid.

 

[mikefamig]

I fear no drywall.  Worrying about holes wastes time and money - I'll cut whatever holes are necessary to get the job done then have a pro come patch it when I'm done (I can't match texture for crap)... then again I have no wallpaper, and I've never regretted a keypad location.  OK, well I do wish my front-door keypad wasn't right by a piece of furniture that my 20 month old stands on while he presses the Police Dispatch or the "All Lights Off" buttons while I'm trying to cook - but unless I moved them all up 3 feet, there's no fixing that - there's no place left or right that's any better and the alarm has been here longer than that kid.

I fear no drywall but I'm the guy that has to make it look good again when I make it look bad. I just hung 9 4' x 10' sheets in the garage this month that I'm taping and the east wall took 19 4x8 sheets  and I've finished a few rooms in the house in the past so I have a lot of respect for the drywall guy.
 
Mike.

 

[tmbrown97]

Agreed - I don't do it myself anymore - those guys are fast and relatively cheap for what they do!

 

[Del91574]

Am I the only one who's hesitant to cut a hole in the wall for a keypad for fear that I won't like the location after using it for a while? Especially if the wall is wall-papered. It's kind of a big decision.
 
I have a good location for my rear entrance but for the front I have wallpaper and the most convenient spot already has a thermostat and door bell ringer and adding another device is going to look pretty bad. There is also an unused single gang wall switch box next to the door. I could throw a kpas in there but it is at switch height and will be hard to read. I'm going to have to give it some thought.
 
Mike.

Maybe I'm out of line, but which is more paramount, having a usable system or worrying about how many devices are on the wall? The area already has the other devices there, how big of a deal is it for a keypad to be mounted there or in proximity to that area.