ELK or Omni

brodgers

Member
Long time reader, first time poster...

I just recently moved and need to install a new alarm system in my new house. I am trying to weigh the pro's and con's of the ELKM1Gold versus an HAI Omni Pro II. Obviously the Omni is more expensive. However, if you get a meaningful benefit from going with the omni, then the extra cost can be justified. This will be a DIY install and programming.

About my installation: House was built in 1946 with hand troweled plaster walls and it will be very difficult to run new wiring. Consequently, most of the sensors will be wireless. I estimate that I will have somewhere about 15-20 sensors throughout the house. 3 or 4 of those zones may be wired in the basement. There will only be one control panel and it will be located in the kitchen. I would like for the system to integrate well with Charmed Quark and I will create ELK or Omni screens for CQC. While I can certainly run the automation side in just CQC, I'd like to offload as much as possible onto the controller I choose. My windows system is stable, but finding inputs is tough. ELK and Omni both make that easier.

Lighting will most likely be Leviton VIZIA-RF.

HVAC integration is a little tricky. I have 3 cooling zones and 4 heating zones. Cooling is forced air, heating is a gas fired boiler with radiators throughout the house. Unfortunately, I have a ton of thermostats scattered around the house. Most of the thermostats control either heating or cooling, but rarely both. For the ones that control both heating and cooling, the AC is in the attic while the relay for the heating is in the basement. My assumption is that this would make using the RCS thermostats difficult. The new Z-wave thermostats from HAI looked interesting.

So, can anyone give me some insight into the strengths of ELK vs Omni or vice versa?

Thanks in advance...
 
Long time reader, first time poster...

I just recently moved and need to install a new alarm system in my new house. I am trying to weigh the pro's and con's of the ELKM1Gold versus an HAI Omni Pro II. Obviously the Omni is more expensive. However, if you get a meaningful benefit from going with the omni, then the extra cost can be justified. This will be a DIY install and programming.

About my installation: House was built in 1946 with hand troweled plaster walls and it will be very difficult to run new wiring. Consequently, most of the sensors will be wireless. I estimate that I will have somewhere about 15-20 sensors throughout the house. 3 or 4 of those zones may be wired in the basement. There will only be one control panel and it will be located in the kitchen. I would like for the system to integrate well with Charmed Quark and I will create ELK or Omni screens for CQC. While I can certainly run the automation side in just CQC, I'd like to offload as much as possible onto the controller I choose. My windows system is stable, but finding inputs is tough. ELK and Omni both make that easier.

Lighting will most likely be Leviton VIZIA-RF.

HVAC integration is a little tricky. I have 3 cooling zones and 4 heating zones. Cooling is forced air, heating is a gas fired boiler with radiators throughout the house. Unfortunately, I have a ton of thermostats scattered around the house. Most of the thermostats control either heating or cooling, but rarely both. For the ones that control both heating and cooling, the AC is in the attic while the relay for the heating is in the basement. My assumption is that this would make using the RCS thermostats difficult. The new Z-wave thermostats from HAI looked interesting.

So, can anyone give me some insight into the strengths of ELK vs Omni or vice versa?

Thanks in advance...

Not sure if you are planning to use touch screens but I belive the Omni-Pro screens can be surface mounted while the Elk ones cannot. (Might make a difference with plaster walls). Also HAI screens will automatically switch to a door camera view when that doorbell is pressed which is a very cool feature. HAI is also supposed to be releasing some new products soon... maybe November?

**EDIT**

I should mention that I do not use HAI stuff myself... I'm just trying to identify things that might apply to your situation.
 
Welcome to CocoonTech!

I would really suggest doing some searching here, there are many threads asking this same question with lots of opinions. In short, they are both excellent systems. The each have a few bells and whistles the other doesn't. It is pretty much a fact that Elk does a better job supporting the DIY population. While they both work nicely for pro integrators, HAI is established almost exclusively in that market. Elk otoh does a good job of supporting both the pro and diy market. If you feel you would not need much support and can get the proper programming tools, HAI does make a nice product. HAI is more expensive as you noted, but they give you more up front. Systems configured equally will be closer in price albeit Elk is still more cost effective by a bit. I can also tell you the CQC/Elk driver works great, been using it for 2 years and it is rock solid and Dean is going to be adding some more bits to it shortly. There is a HAI driver for CQC but I have no experience with it but imagine it would be fine as well.

Hmmm, I did say in short, ha, so I'll leave it there - either will work, but you will getter better support as a DIY'er from Elk and this forum. I follow pretty much your philosophy, I have my Elk do as much as I can, especially critical stuff and let CQC handle the interface and 'fluff' like TTS, etc, although there is alot you will still find yourself doing with CQC instead of Elk.
 
pretty sure you can do this with the Elk setup as well, I guess it's something I will have to try soon.
Long time reader, first time poster...

I just recently moved and need to install a new alarm system in my new house. I am trying to weigh the pro's and con's of the ELKM1Gold versus an HAI Omni Pro II. Obviously the Omni is more expensive. However, if you get a meaningful benefit from going with the omni, then the extra cost can be justified. This will be a DIY install and programming.

About my installation: House was built in 1946 with hand troweled plaster walls and it will be very difficult to run new wiring. Consequently, most of the sensors will be wireless. I estimate that I will have somewhere about 15-20 sensors throughout the house. 3 or 4 of those zones may be wired in the basement. There will only be one control panel and it will be located in the kitchen. I would like for the system to integrate well with Charmed Quark and I will create ELK or Omni screens for CQC. While I can certainly run the automation side in just CQC, I'd like to offload as much as possible onto the controller I choose. My windows system is stable, but finding inputs is tough. ELK and Omni both make that easier.

Lighting will most likely be Leviton VIZIA-RF.

HVAC integration is a little tricky. I have 3 cooling zones and 4 heating zones. Cooling is forced air, heating is a gas fired boiler with radiators throughout the house. Unfortunately, I have a ton of thermostats scattered around the house. Most of the thermostats control either heating or cooling, but rarely both. For the ones that control both heating and cooling, the AC is in the attic while the relay for the heating is in the basement. My assumption is that this would make using the RCS thermostats difficult. The new Z-wave thermostats from HAI looked interesting.

So, can anyone give me some insight into the strengths of ELK vs Omni or vice versa?

Thanks in advance...

Not sure if you are planning to use touch screens but I belive the Omni-Pro screens can be surface mounted while the Elk ones cannot. (Might make a difference with plaster walls). Also HAI screens will automatically switch to a door camera view when that doorbell is pressed which is a very cool feature. HAI is also supposed to be releasing some new products soon... maybe November?
 
I tried to figure out this very question for myself about 4 months ago. I was initially set on the Omni, as it seemed like a better system based on their marketing. After I stumbled across cocoontech though, I made up my mind on the Elk. The Elk is much more DIY friendly (as stated above), and has a HUGE community of users who can help out with configuration or issues.

Just my two cents.
 
The TS07 supports changing screens using ASCII commands (it's not really documented yet as far as I know, but it does work), so you should be able to send the command directly from the M1.

That said, welcome aboard Brodgers. I personally would recommend the M1 system as well based on personal experience. I am not familiar with the Omni hardware, so I can't say it's good or bad, but I do know the Elk people support the CocoonTech community, while HAI (as a company) is definitely not DIY friendly.
 
Having installed over 20 Omni's before M1, I am firmly in the ELK camp now. No looking back or 2nd thoughts. HAI these days is playing catch-up to ELK ( their IP Touchscreen will not be out till '08). ELK is continually improving it. The iTouch interface will be the next cool upgrade.
 
How is the programming language between the two? Is one easier than the other or more capable? I had an Omni in my former house and it worked flawlessly. But, that's not to say there's not a better mousetrap out there.
 
How is the programming language between the two? Is one easier than the other or more capable? I had an Omni in my former house and it worked flawlessly. But, that's not to say there's not a better mousetrap out there.

Hi Brodgers,

Welcome to the forum.

I was in a similiar situation to you two years ago. Did my research and whilst the HAI look nice and did what I was looking for at the time what swung it for me was the CocoonTech Forum and the support for the ELK M1 here.

There were other considering factors in the HAI as over here (Australia) the HAI was considerably more expensive than the ELK (Ness brands herein Aus). You had to pay for their system programming tool where the ELK was provided free when you purchased a system. Back then I was able to download a demo version of [post="0"]http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/elkrp.htm[/post] however I can't seem to find it on the ELK site now, maybe someone else knows where the link is. I suggest that you download the demo version of ELKRP thier programming tool and have a look at what you can do within the ELK system, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Then layer on top of that the other control surfaces that seamlessly integrate with M1, CQC, HomeSeer etc. I can't offer any advice here as I am still sitting on the fence. I am (well was :lol: ) building a house here and our builder went belly up, I was getting close to making a decision as to which touchscreen system to go with before the builder went tits up. 12 months after signing our original contract we are about a week away from signing with a new builder :) so I will start the evaluation process again. What you will find is a lot changes in 12 months.

What I can say is in the last year or so I have seen a lot of developments in and around the M1.... Touchscreen, wireless, Russound support etc. In pararell to that the likes of CQC , HomeSeer etc have been bolting in more and more plugins to support a lot and I mean a LOT of devices that you will be likely to want to integrate if you looking at whole of house home lifestyle solution. These of course will integrate with HAI too but looking at my decision to go M1 pretty much every month or so I see yet another option/accessory that is now supported.

I currently have my system virtually completely wired in 4 X ELK 28" housings and as the house gets underway I will leave a lot of the final decisions as to CQC, HomeSeer and the like until a little closer to the house completion. I am sure that with another 9 or 10 months before the system is shipped 4000km to it's final resting place there will be yet more niceties to be added. Spanky (AKA ELK's Chief Engineer) who is very active on this forum has already flagged that we will see iTouch interfacing in a few months time. Also at CEDIA in the US HomeSeer announces [post="0"]http://www.homeseer.com/company/releases/07-09-HSTouch.htm[/post] , Spanky flagged the iTouch interface soon. All were not muted a few weeks back so things change a lot in a short space of time. CQC have added heaps to their offering too.

Going down the M1 path for me has been a good decision. You are never alone here, the quality and experience you find with the members here on this forum is second to none! Back that up with Spanky's support and the path to integration is as smooth as you could find it if like me you wanted to take ownership of the system design, implimentation and then control of what the whole of house system does. The beauty of the M1 is you can scale it up or down as much as you require for your application with the comfort and knowledge that it is not going to cost and arm and a leg and as a memebr here you have a knowledge base that is extensive to say the very least!

Bottom line is you probably can't make a bad decision ELK vs HAI, having travelled the journey with M1 I have not regretted the decision and am really enjoying the M1 experience.

A long reply but thought it would give you some insight by someone like yourself who was weighing up which way to go not to long ago.

Goodluck with your decision.

Regards,

Fleetz
 
brodgers,
Here is a comparison chart put together by SetNet, Inc. A distributor of ELK, HAI, and OnQ. I hope it can answer some of your questions: http://www.setnetpro.com/controllers.asp

There are several items in the comparison chart that needs to be updated since it was created, but generally it is a good comparison between the systems.




Geez Fleetz, we need to hire you to write advertising copy!! :huh:


Dan, The ELK TS-07 touchscreen is recess mounted. For now!
 
brodgers,
Here is a comparison chart put together by SetNet, Inc. A distributor of ELK, HAI, and OnQ. I hope it can answer some of your questions: http://www.setnetpro.com/controllers.asp

There are several items in the comparison chart that needs to be updated since it was created, but generally it is a good comparison between the systems.




Geez Fleetz, we need to hire you to write advertising copy!! :lol:


Dan, The ELK TS-07 touchscreen is recess mounted. For now!


Awwwww shucks Spanky ya say da nicest tings!! :huh: :rolleyes: :D
 
Spanky - Thank for the link. That is very helpful. It looks like the Omni may be a little more flexible, but I'm not sure its in areas that I will use. There were two things that caught my eye that you might be able to shed some light on. It looked like the ELK did not have a atomic clock so that you can set rules by relation to sunrise or sunset. Is this true, or did I miss something? Also, does the ELK, with the z-wave module, handle 2-way communication? It looked like it might only be 1-way.

Thanks again.
 
Spanky - Thank for the link. That is very helpful. It looks like the Omni may be a little more flexible, but I'm not sure its in areas that I will use. There were two things that caught my eye that you might be able to shed some light on. It looked like the ELK did not have a atomic clock so that you can set rules by relation to sunrise or sunset. Is this true, or did I miss something? Also, does the ELK, with the z-wave module, handle 2-way communication? It looked like it might only be 1-way.

Thanks again.

The ELKRP has a builtin real time clock with sunrise and sunset calculated from your latitude and longitude. Also the M1XEP Ethernet interface now will go to WWV or a time server each day and update the real time clock. I have a watch with WWV radio settings set for 6:45 alarm each morning and the M1 makes a wakeup voice announcement at 6:45 also. They occur within the same second each morning.

The current M1XZW Zwave module for the M1 is two way from the M1. Due to the Lutron Patent, any switch controlling a light is not relayed to the M1. We are beta testing the Leviton Zwave to RS232 controller which does give two feedback from a light switch. We can support up to 4 Zwave thermostats.

Centralite's new JetStream with Zigbee technology also looks very promising.

As I said the comparison chart has some errors and is not up to date as ELK has made many new enhancements.
 
The ELKRP has a builtin real time clock with sunrise and sunset calculated from your latitude and longitude. Also the M1XEP Ethernet interface now will go to WWV or a time server each day and update the real time clock. I have a watch with WWV radio settings set for 6:45 alarm each morning and the M1 makes a wakeup voice announcement at 6:45 also. They occur within the same second each morning.

Spanky, the XEP will go to an NTP server?!? Am I missing something? I asked about this here last june, but didn't know that it had been implemented.

Very glad to hear if this does exist.
 
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