Elk questions

[Zellarman]

I have my whole home setup with insteon lighting and an ISY controller with the web module, an a port server. The wife wants to get a security system, and I think it might make a lot of sense to go with the Elk M1GSYS4S Gold Security System.
Researching it a bit, I have some questions
1) Am I wasting money on duplicating some features / capabilities I already have, or is some redundancy a benefit?
2) Does Elk manufacture or are there directly compatible (supported) accessories? ie: simple contact closures (wired and or wireless) for doors and windows, smoke and CO detectors
3) How easy / difficult is it to set up?
4) Can multiple speakers be independently addressed?
5) Do I have to buy that special cable to set up custom audio outputs?
6) Can my ISY arm the system?
7) How / where do I get 'Official' support! This forum is great, and very helpful, but at the end of the day nobody can be hel accountable.
Thanks in advance

 

[apostolakisl]

I have the Elk m1g and a large ISY/Insteon setup. It works well.

1) Am I wasting money on duplicating some features / capabilities I already have, or is some redundancy a benefit?

Yes and Yes. When the Elk module for ISY comes out I suspect that a lot of HA programmming on Elk will really be redundant. But I still like to keep rules that are strictly security based on Elk. There has been a little talk on the ISY forum that the guys at ISY are creating modules for DSC and possibly other security systems, but I don't think that will be available soon. You might direct that question to Michel on ISY forum.

2) Does Elk manufacture or are there directly compatible (supported) accessories? ie: simple contact closures (wired and or wireless) for doors and windows, smoke and CO detectors

Elk uses all of the standard security system stuff. Aside from the actual Elk boards (m1g, xep, xsp, m1rb, and keypads), not a single thing in my system is made by Elk.

3) How easy / difficult is it to set up?

It sets up like a standard alarm as far as the hardware wiring. Programming a security system when you have never done it before will be a learning experience, but with Elk's RP software it is about as easy as it can be. The Elk has a lot more options than a more basic security system which might make it more confusing, but that's the price you pay for having options.

4) Can multiple speakers be independently addressed?

I don't think so. I only have one voice speaker.

5) Do I have to buy that special cable to set up custom audio outputs?

Someone else will need to answer this. I have one voice speaker and I only use Elk's library of voice stuff. The library is very big however. But if you want it to read War and Peace or something, you will need to do custom.

6) Can my ISY arm the system?

Yes, but with some caveats. The Elk module for ISY will let you arm the system when it is released. You can currently see the status of the Elk from the ISY gui and you can manually arm it from the gui. At present (no elk module needed), you can have ISY arm the Elk (or send virtually any Elk command) if you have the ISY network module and are willing to write the commands manually. The ISY forum has the info on how to do this. This does not work the other way (ISY programs can't be directly triggered by Elk events, the Elk module will however when it comes out). You can also use Insteon devices as a "go between". For example, the Elk can respond to an insteon light or kpl button turning on by arming the system.

7) How / where do I get 'Official' support! This forum is great, and very helpful, but at the end of the day nobody can be hel accountable.

Elk has for the most part stopped giving direct diy support. Elk support does answer questions here sometimes. When I first put my system in 2 years ago, I got direct support fairly easily, but not now. This forum has a lot of Elk owners who know their stuff. The ISY forum will no doubt be a great resource after the Elk module drops. Elk does give the diy person access to all of the firmware updates and software downloads free of charge. You need to request a password. They have a higher level of online service that only dealers get. I don't know what is there since I am not a dealer/pro installer.

 

[Zellarman]

Thanks Lou for your detailed answers. One more question for now

What kind of wire is needed for the keypad? I think I have an 8 or 10 conductor in the wall (I put it there over 10 years ago) but I can still manage to get another wire in place, my concern is that it may require a specialized wire that it comes with, which wouldn't be a problem either, as long as it doesn't have some kind of specialized connector already at each end.

 

[apostolakisl]

Thanks Lou for your detailed answers. One more question for now

What kind of wire is needed for the keypad? I think I have an 8 or 10 conductor in the wall (I put it there over 10 years ago) but I can still manage to get another wire in place, my concern is that it may require a specialized wire that it comes with, which wouldn't be a problem either, as long as it doesn't have some kind of specialized connector already at each end.

You need 4 conductors. They recommend cat5/6 wire, but other wire will work. Cat5 wire is twisted which helps with noise since the keypad wire is a databus (as opposed to alarm contacts where noise is irrelevent).

 

[Del91574]

Thanks Lou for your detailed answers. One more question for now

What kind of wire is needed for the keypad? I think I have an 8 or 10 conductor in the wall (I put it there over 10 years ago) but I can still manage to get another wire in place, my concern is that it may require a specialized wire that it comes with, which wouldn't be a problem either, as long as it doesn't have some kind of specialized connector already at each end.

Clarification, the keypad will work with as little as 4 conductors, however if you have more than 2 or are planning on installing expanders or serials in the field, you will need more conductors or a retrofit board for the data bus.

The least you'll need without a retrofit hub is 6, but 8 would be ideal to take advantage of the keypad's input and output.

Category cable is recommended, however not truly for the reasons stated.

 

[apostolakisl]

Clarification, the keypad will work with as little as 4 conductors, however if you have more than 2 or are planning on installing expanders or serials in the field, you will need more conductors or a retrofit board for the data bus.

The least you'll need without a retrofit hub is 6, but 8 would be ideal to take advantage of the keypad's input and output.

Category cable is recommended, however not truly for the reasons stated.

Del,

My recollection is 4 conducters if you daisy chain them, right? If you home run each one you need 8?

 

[Del91574]

Depends, it's not completely clear cut.

With the M1 and a daisy chain, without any sort of hubs, you can continue the 485 but the issue is the power for the bus devices. In a short run for something like XIN's you generally won't see an issue, but with KP's and XOV and XOVR's and RB's, they eat a lot of current, so it depends really what's being daisy chained.

The minimum I'd consider, unless unable to do otherwise, would be 6 on a daisy, even though 4 may work in certain circumstances. If more conductors exist, then other methods can be used. If you have anything other than a solid category cable, then I'd also forget using a standard DBH and wire a conventional out/back or use a retrofit hub to free conductors up.

Page 8 and 12 are the best guidelines, also citing the minimum AWG is 24, with 22 AWG being the recommended and 18 for distance.

I'll just state I've observed a lot of Category cables, expecially the 5E and 6's are sized either 24 or more commonly 26 AWG to keep the diameter more similar to a old cat 5.