Elk RP Software Question

[real3d]

Hello all-

I'm trying to plan sensor placement and possible rules/conditions I could create with my Elk M1EZ8. I am trying to address the desire to setup a very secure system, but still have a little freedom from motion sensors at night, but only under a specific condition. I want to setup the main floor, which has no bedrooms, with various door and motion sensors. Then I want to install a motion sensor in the 2nd floor hallway where the stairs come up. The idea is to arm the house and go to bed. But if my wife/self/child gets up in the night to go down to the kitchen area, I would like to use the sensor at the top of the stairs to detect the motion (considered a 100% safe area) and disarm the motion sensors on the main floor, thus allowing that late night snack. Could that work?

Assuming it is possible, could I then set an arming code for the kids, to rearm the main motions once they return upstairs, but the time frame for this code being valid is only during certain hours of the night (when I'm home) so they don't try to play not so funny alarm jokes in the daytime?

Thank you in advance for any input.

malikrug

 

[rfdesq]

Hello and welcome. What you would like to do is very possible. It is amazing what you can do with the ELK system. Do you have ELKRP the free programming software for the ELK? If you do, play away with the rules. If you don't go to the ELK site and sign up.

 

[real3d]

Hello and welcome. What you would like to do is very possible. It is amazing what you can do with the ELK system. Do you have ELKRP the free programming software for the ELK? If you do, play away with the rules. If you don't go to the ELK site and sign up.

Thank you rfdesq.

I was pretty sure Elk RP would be able to handle this situation, but wanted to know this week so I can get the boxes placed and wire run before the 4-way inspection on the house on Monday.

I have the software but have not tried it yet - I'm still waiting for other system parts in the mail.

Regards,
malikrug

 

[Spanky]

I verified you could do what you want by writing Rules to bypass the zones when a motion detector zone is violated and you are armed to Stay mode. You can then set an output timer to unbypass the zones. You might add a motion detector downstairs that will reset the bypass output timer any time it is tripped. When no motion is detected for a period of time the downstairs bypass of zones will by unbypassed.

 

[real3d]

I verified you could do what you want by writing Rules to bypass the zones when a motion detector zone is violated and you are armed to Stay mode. You can then set an output timer to unbypass the zones. You might add a motion detector downstairs that will reset the bypass output timer any time it is tripped. When no motion is detected for a period of time the downstairs bypass of zones will by unbypassed.

Spanky,

Thank you!
What you described with the second sensor to re-arm after a period of inactivity is exactly what I originally wanted, but thought it might be asking to much (remember I have not even installed RP yet to play around). Hopefully I will get my serial connection box today and can try out RP for a bench test this weekend.

Follow-up Question:
Can I use the motion sensors that were disarmed as the sensors to detect when there is no longer motion (after a period of time), or do I need a separate sensor? I guess the logic would be something like: If the house WAS armed AND the upper motion disabled the lower motions, RE-ARM lower motions AFTER x period of time WHEN lower motions no longer sense motion. I suppose this is all based on an assumption that the motions indicate motion to the main panel even when they are not armed? Thank you in advance.

This forum is a great resource, especially with presence of an Elk engineer.

Thanks to all for your input

malikrug

 

[rfdesq]

Without testing, my gut tells me that once you bypass a zone it will no longer be available for any use. Once you start playing with ELKRP you should be able to figure out using the two sensors, phantom outputs as countdown timers, and unbypassed sensor zones to rearm the system fully.

 

[Spanky]

RFDESQ is right in that on the ELK M1 or EZ8 control, once a sensor is bypassed, you cannot use it to retrigger a Rule, so the best thing is to use the downstairs sensor to retrigger Rules which could activate a relay output that ties back to a zone. When the downstairs motions are active in the security mode and someone violates one of them, trigger a relay output that will trigger a security zone.

There are many different ways of skinning this cat, but this is one of them.


Welcome Malikrug to Cocoontech!

 

[me2]

I verified you could do what you want by writing Rules to bypass the zones when a motion detector zone is violated and you are armed to Stay mode. You can then set an output timer to unbypass the zones. You might add a motion detector downstairs that will reset the bypass output timer any time it is tripped. When no motion is detected for a period of time the downstairs bypass of zones will by unbypassed.

Could you explain, "You can then set an output timer to unbypass the zones." I am having a hard time grasping how to get the elk to wait to unbypass the zones. Thanks

 

[Spanky]

General Rule to bypass when going down stairs:
Output 100 is an unused phantom output used for a timer
Zone 5 is the Staircase Motion Detector, define as a NON ALARM zone
Zone 6 is an Instant Interior defined zone that will be trigged from output 3 if illegal motion is sensed on downstairs motion on zone 7
Zone 7 is the downstairs motion detector, define as a NON ALARM zone
Output 3's (or some other relay output) relay contacts are tied to zone 6 as a normally closed zone.
Note: In this example someone must trigger the downstairs motion detector when it has been disabled at least once every 5 minutes or the alarm will activate. Of course you can make the 5 minute value anything you want.


WHENEVER Staircase Motion (Zn 5) BECOMES NOT SECURE
AND Smith Household (Area 1) IS ARMED STAY INSTANT //or whatever arming state you want
THEN Turn Output 100 ON FOR 5 Minutes, RESTART TIMER IF RUNNING //This starts the Disable Downstairs Motion timer

//Rule to keep Disabled the Downstairs Motion Timer running when someone wanders around downstairs.

WHENEVER Downstairs Motion Detector BECOMES NOT SECURE
AND Smith Household (Area 1) IS ARMED STAY INSTANT
AND Output 100 IS ON
THEN Turn Output 100 ON FOR 5 Minutes, RESTART TIMER IF RUNNING //This restarts the Disable Downstairs Motion timer

//Rule to violate Zone 6 and cause alarm from Downstairs Motion Detector

WHENEVER Downstairs Motion (Zone 7) BECOMES NOT SECURE
AND Output 100 STATE IS OFF //You can use any of the expanded output relays also.
THEN Turn Output 3 ON FOR 5 SECONDS //This will violate Zone 6 because Output 3's contacts are tied to Zone 6 input.

//The Output 100 Timer will run out or turn off by itself in 5 minutes and re-enable the downstairs motion detector.

I have not wired this up, but it should work.
In this example I did not use the Bypass Zone Rule.

 

[me2]

Thanks!

 

[AnotherOne]

Couldn't you put the montion detectors in another area, then arm / dismarm that area?