ELK Thermostats -- could it really be this easy?

[Mike]

I would rather be disuaded from making a return because I misunderstood how to use a product and got put on the track to complete satisfaction , than to return it and have to start all over again with a different product that might be less suited than the original. What I don't have patience for anymore is to have to deal with someone who knows less than I do but is the person assigned to help me. If that's arrogant, so be it ;- )

So in the ideal world, the distributor (SH in this case) acknowledges that it doesn't have in-house expertise on a complicated, important, non-toy product, and refers the buyer to Someone Who Does Know (eg HAI). And the SWDK says "Lemme talk to your HVAC guy" -- the *other* SWDK -- who is put on track, the product properly configured, and everyone sings Kum Ba Yah - with an RMA, costly for everybody, averted.

For this to work, the manufacturer has to be able to provide a solution. And from all of what I've heard over the years about HAI, they do. (I'm a relative late-comer to all-in-one-panels having bought an Elk a couple of years ago and have no first-hand experience with HAI.) We've all had experiences where "call the manufacturer" is the beginninng of a run-around, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

First I am glad that the question raised on this old thread was answered.

To clarify my point on the side topic, I don't think anyone disputes that having HAI involved is a bad thing. It is a good thing they note that it will be directed to HAI for support. They let you know up front without wasting your time talking to people who do not have the background on this. No problem there at all (in fact kudos for them to make that point clear).

What if (which was the example in the post that I responded to) you buy one model and needed another? Or found that you spoke to HAI and it would not work in your setup? HAI will refund your money and take the equipment? I think not (but if I am wrong...). The way it reads is essentially 'all sales final, RMA through HAI only for defective units', which is why I noted the solution is simple: buy elsewhere if you may need to do that. Frankly, I would assume there are not many cases where a thermostat needs to be returned, but buyer beware. If it is a concern, buy elsewhere. I do find that part very unusual (and my reference to several other retailers was to see if any other retailers had a similar caution/note).

 

[hult]

First I am glad that the question raised on this old thread was answered.

To clarify my point on the side topic, I don't think anyone disputes that having HAI involved is a bad thing. It is a good thing they note that it will be directed to HAI for support. They let you know up front without wasting your time talking to people who do not have the background on this. No problem there at all (in fact kudos for them to make that point clear).

What if (which was the example in the post that I responded to) you buy one model and needed another? Or found that you spoke to HAI and it would not work in your setup? HAI will refund your money and take the equipment? I think not (but if I am wrong...). The way it reads is essentially 'all sales final, RMA through HAI only for defective units', which is why I noted the solution is simple: buy elsewhere if you may need to do that. Frankly, I would assume there are not many cases where a thermostat needs to be returned, but buyer beware. If it is a concern, buy elsewhere. I do find that part very unusual (and my reference to several other retailers was to see if any other retailers had a similar caution/note).

All that you write makes sense to me and I have no specific insight as to what causes SH to have a different policy with respect to HAI themostats than most (all?) other merchandise. We can note that SH is a relatively small company and so able to make 'rules' quickly and as needed. They apparently feel, or are made to feel, the need. HAI thermostats are a relatively unusual commodity in that they are simultaneously part of a well developed system of accessories and extensions to the HAI panel and a device that can be used by other systems including those that don't use a central hardware panel (eg HomeSeer) and by competing hardware panels (eg Elk). There may be a competetive aspect to this that I/we can only speculate about. You (Mike) have already touched on the solution -- purchase elsewhere especially if the HAI hardware is not to be used with an HAI panel. If one is already married to HAI hardware, it would seem to be less of an issue.

This part of the discussion raises interesting (to me at least) observations as to how HA systems begin and accrete. Initial decisions can be important. For example, I have an Elk M1G, Homeseer, and CQS. The Aprilaire can be connected to any of those 'systems" and the Elk itself incorporated into either of the SW implementations. I used Aprilaire/Statnet/Enerzone with a prior PC-based HA system (CyberHouse). If CyberHouse had supported HAI panels or thermostats, I might have been on a different trajectory. But it didn't ;-) At the time, there was no PCentric system that came close to the power of CyberHouse so the decision to go with Enerzone/Aprilaire was a no-brainer. There are more good choices now.

As is, our Aprilaires are connected to HomeSeer and not the Elk (and not, ironically CQS even though the salf-same 8870 thermostat that now runs our first floor HVAC is one of the units Dean R. originally used while developing the CQS Aprilaire driver ;-)

Thanks for the discussion ... Marc

 

[politics123]

Hey all --

I think there are some good comments raised, and I think its always better to revitalize old posts rather than start new ones that talk essentially about the same topic.

1) For any unit that must be "installed", I think that the buyer needs to do their research, ask questions, make sure they purchase what they need, etc. A purchaser should not have the expectation of being able to return a product that was purchased incorrectly and installed. Buying something from a retailer, I have the expectation of being able to return uninstalled items (eg: you read the install manual and decide you bought the wrong unit -- but these days, with online instructions manuals, you should have figured it out before purchase!).

2) That's part of the D-I-Y risk. If you don't want the risk, you can always hire a company to do the work for you... pro's can reuse incorrect products on future customer installs (eg: keep it in inventory), but the labor cost between a pro and DIY could be large enough to pay for you buying TWO thermostats! Luckily, e-bay makes the cost of "trials" less expensive. For example, I bought a bunch of z-wave stuff to experiment and play-around with it, but if I choose UPB, I can just r-ebay the z-wave products.


I went with the HAI thermostats and find them to be excellent options. I have one installed now in stand-alone mode (too lazy to do the second!), mainly because I need to finish the security setup before automating them. I did have to connect a "C" common wire for the RC-80B, but when I had the humidier installed, one of the pro's pointed out where to attach the blue wire.

The HAI units look great and are responsible for helping drastically cut our HVAC bill

Thanks all for your support!

 

[Mashman]

I am playing with the Beta flash (M1XSP) that allows text messaging to the 8870s. Once the bugs are worked out, we should be able to open up most of the features of the stat. The 8870 is by far the best looking and feature rich stat on the market. The tech support guys are great at helping out with their protocol spec.

SHARBY


Sharby, is there any progression on your Beta flash? I am really interested in this since my 2 8870 Tstat should arrive in the next few days.

Thanks