Ever try outdoor motion sensors?

[IVB]

Anyone ever try outdoor motion sensors? I've now gone through 4 motion sensor lights in 7 years, so i'm contemplating putting up low voltage lighting run through an Elk relay but that requires outdoor motion sensors that work well.  I see pricing anywhere from $85->way higher so this wouldn't save me any money vs just buying my 5th sensor, but if it lasts more than a few years i'll be happy. (Plus I could put up lighting in different locations all controlled via a single motion sensor or maybe even 2).

 

[Del91574]

Cost is usually prohibitive for LV vs. HV detectors. What works well for outdoor and cheap are mutually exclusive items.
 
I can't comment as to what sort of light head (or fixture) you may have, but if you have the universal type with a separate motion head, it's a no brainer to replace that before the entire fixture, assuming that's the kind of light you have. Even so, if you don't have a separate motion and/or HV element, it's easy enough to retrofit and get one for sub-$20.
 
Also, move away from the Heath/Zenith elements available at the big box stores. Garbage.

 

[IVB]

yeah it certainly is garbage, thats what I've been getting and they just don't last. Not sure I want to try and fix it since it'll probably just break in 2 years again.
 
Cost seems about 3X for LV vs HV at Heath/Zenith prices. Assuming Volt is fine, its $55 for a 1000 lumens, I think I'd want 3 to replace my current POS 2-way floodlight. Add in $90 for the outdoor motion sensor for an Elk and thats $250 (i have tons of LV wiring and unused Elk relays from the cutback in backyard LV lighting scope).
 
Do you have a good brand for HV motion lighting? Or even a place to get them? I looked at Lamps Plus but its a house brand and Lamps Plus is also a big retailer.

 

[Del91574]

I think we use SquareD clipsal units in the control portion at a few of our sites.
 
A halfway reliable OD motion detector is going to set you back a pretty penny also.

 

[IVB]

 halfway reliable OD motion detector is going to set you back a pretty penny also.

 
I saw a few at $85. At 3 x $55/each for lights, we're at $250, versus $100 for the Heath/Zenith crap level motion sensor.
 
At this point I'm less interested in the capital outlay as long as its not stupidly high, i'm sick of replacing the freaking light. Its not in the most convenient place to replace, plus I hate doing things more than once this often. 
 
If I can find a quality HV motion sensor I'll do that, but if I do this again in 2 years i'll be vexed, terribly vexed.

 

[JimS]

I put in an Optex LX402 that was recommended in several threads here as a low voltage detector and put in a relay for one set of HV lights. I had access to the feed in the attic and there was even a junction box so it was pretty easy. A plus is that they all come on together now and I was able to position the sensor to get good coverage of the whole area.

That was about 18 months ago as I recall so not really long enough to prove it will last longer than the Heath/Zenith junk but others report good reliability.

Del, You said a replacement sensor could be had for less than $20 and to stay away from Heath/Zenith. I took that to mean you can get a better than Heath/Zenith senor for the under $20 price.If that's the case I would like to know what brand/where.

Seems like the lens cracks and then the unit goes bad. I think if you could shade the sensor so it gets less sun that may help. My HV sensors (Heath/Zenith) that get less sun have lasted a little longer - I got about 10 years out of the ones that are more shaded.

 

[IVB]

My Heath/Zenith are under eaves, fully covered from sun. 4 different ones lasted less than 2 years each. (And i'm in northern california, rarely colder than 40, rarely hotter than 85)

 

[pete_c]

so i'm contemplating putting up low voltage lighting run through an Elk relay but that requires outdoor motion sensors that work well.

 
Here have used same Optex outdoor LV sensors for over 10 years and whatever automated switch was plugged in to my Leviton HAI panel.
 
They have worked fine.
 
I have recently started to play with those 10-30 watt 12VDC LV wash / flood lamps.   DC power is provided to them by DIN mounted Meanwell power supplies switched on or off by UPB.
 

 
They are very reasonably priced these days.  I purchased a couple of these in the early summer and am not protecting them from the weather and they are still working fine.   I am using these at the bases of trees facing up.  The lamp cases are not rusting to date.

 

[LarrylLix]

Are these the RGBW units? They aren't too clear on the comm method or the power supply required. Is the WiFi api made available somewhere? Maybe this doesn't apply if yours are white only.

 

[pete_c]

Are these the RGBW units?
 
No they are not RGB, wireless or self automated at all.  They are just plan old warm white LED 12VDC lamps.  Very bright 12VDC lamps.
 
Early models were over $50 and under $100.  These are much more reasonable in price and haven't rusted on me yet.
 
The suggestion here is to go al la carte with an outdoor LV sensor cabling to Elk panel and install an automated switch managed by IVB's Elk panel whatever IVB's automated switch is.
 
It is a PITA to LV wire up outdoor sensors; once done you shouldn't have to replace them every two years.

 

[Del91574]

.

Del, You said a replacement sensor could be had for less than $20 and to stay away from Heath/Zenith. I took that to mean you can get a better than Heath/Zenith senor for the under $20 price.If that's the case I would like to know what brand/where.

Seems like the lens cracks and then the unit goes bad. I think if you could shade the sensor so it gets less sun that may help. My HV sensors (Heath/Zenith) that get less sun have lasted a little longer - I got about 10 years out of the ones that are more shaded.

Usually if you deal with a supply house, especially one that deals with the controls business, you'll get a better selection than what is available in the big box stores or you can have them cross reference.
 
Square D and Steinel would be a couple that come to mind.

 

[NeverDie]

IVB,
I think I didn't quite follow, but it sounds like you're wiring your outdoor sensor directly to the lights, is that right?  Most of the all-in-one's look awful, but that's just my opinion.   would have assumed you'd be feeding sensors to HA and then using the HA to trigger the lights.  That way, depending on how many exterior triggers happen, you can keep the lights on progressively longer and/or turn on more lights..  Just a thought.  
 
One of my neighbors down the street has one of those all-in-one's across from the mailboxes.  Every time I access the mailboxes at night they flick on and off, usually a few times.  It's just not a convincing deterrent if you ask me.

 

[IVB]

IVB,
I think I didn't quite follow, but it sounds like you're wiring your outdoor sensor directly to the lights, is that right?  Most of the all-in-one's look awful, but that's just my opinion.   would have assumed you'd be feeding sensors to HA and then using the HA to trigger the lights.  That way, depending on how many exterior triggers happen, you can keep the lights on progressively longer and/or turn on more lights..  Just a thought.  
 
One of my neighbors down the street has one of those all-in-one's across from the mailboxes.  Every time I access the mailboxes at night they flick on and off, usually a few times.  It's just not a convincing deterrent if you ask me.

Sorry, what I meant is that I'm sick of the HV heath / zenith motion lights dying. It's a pita to replace as its under the eaves in front of the stairs and ladder positioning is awkward, and they've been dying every 2 years.

I was thinking about getting an outdoor motion sensor ($90), wiring to the Elk. Then getting 3 10W LV lights ($165) and running via an Elk relay in the middle of the circuit. Then I could have either the elk or CQC turn the relay and hence lights on if motion. Financially it doesn't make sense as a new motion light is $100 vs $255 for the LV path but I don't have the time to be constantly replacing this garbage. I think this time it only lasted 16 months.

 

[pete_c]

I was thinking about getting an outdoor motion sensor ($90), wiring to the Elk. Then getting 3 10W LV lights ($165) and running via an Elk relay in the middle of the circuit.

 
That is what I assumed you wanted to do.  You can also just use one or more automated switches controlled by Elk to do this instead of a relay.  You got the Elk M1 panel; might was well use it.
 
Here utilize multiple outdoor sensors and multiple lights in outside designated LV zones. 
 
You can utilize the same LV outdoor sensors for CCTV recording triggers type of stuff. 

 

[JimS]

Why not just keep the existing light fixtures and remove the sensor.  Plugs for the holes are probably $2.
 
So the cost is
LV motion sensor     $90   (your number, think you could get it slightly cheaper)
RIB                           $15
Plugs                        $  2  
 
      Total                   $107
Almost the same cost as a new motion light.  (the sensor is cheaper and likely the only thing that needs to be replaced)
 
Think you said you already had the elk relays and such to run through the HA system.  The only pain may be where to put the RIB - may require some HV wire runs.