Extending Elk M1 Gold to detached garage

[SIMKO]

I installed an Elk M1 Gold a few years ago in my house and it has been performing very well.  All of my motions, door and window switches are all GE wireless.  I also have two HAI Omnistats and control everything with rules and eKeypad.
 
I would like to extend the alarm out to a detached garage that is about 200' away from the house.  I have an empty 2" PVC conduit run to pull wires for phone, internet and alarm.
 
I did some searching on the site here and it seems like a good way to do this is to run a CAT-6 wire from my existing DBH in the house to a DBH hub in the garage in a panel with a P212S power supply.  Most people then connect an M1XIN to get 16 hardwired zones.
 
Rather than using an M1XIN and running wires all around the garage,  I would rather use more wireless motions and door switches.  Can I run a second M1XFREG in the garage off of the DBH... Will it interfere with the current M1XRFEG 200' away in the house...
 
How would I trigger a siren in the garage if the alarm is activated?  Will I need an M1XOVR to do this?
 
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
- Steve
 
 
 
 

 

[drvnbysound]

Rather than using an M1XIN and running wires all around the garage,  I would rather use more wireless motions and door switches.  Can I run a second M1XFREG in the garage off of the DBH... Will it interfere with the current M1XRFEG 200' away in the house...

 
How would I trigger a siren in the garage if the alarm is activated?  Will I need an M1XOVR to do this?
 
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
- Steve

 
I literally pulled cables from my home to detached garage yesterday - (6) Cat5E, (3) 18/2, and (1) RG-6. Having said that, I'm not as familiar with the GE module, but I know with the Elk wireless as well as the Honeywell module - more than one can be installed to provide suitable coverage area. I'd have to check the manual to be certain, but I'm pretty confident that you'd be able to do the same with the GE module.
 
I'm going to be using (1) of the 18/2 cables to connect a speaker in the garage to OUT1 on the main panel. This will allow me to get the voice messages as well as alerting from the main panel into the garage.
 
I'm opting to put a DBH in the garage as well, where I will run a XIN module and wired sensors. The DBH will also support the garage keypad.

 

[Del91574]

Distance would be the main question, but if you're reasonably close, before installing a second receiver, I'd put a repeater in, assuming the buildings are reasonably close together. The main problem is usually going to be how to arm/disarm a second building and related status.

 

[drvnbysound]

Unless I figure anything different out, as of right now, I'm planning for 2 speakers in my shop. One behind the KP for local notifications, and a 73 (?) for notifications from the home... with the home and shop being separate Areas. I have a TWA as well...
 
It's been a while since I've actually looked at this, so I need to revisit now that I've got the cabling between the buildings...
 
Del, it's OUT1 that is the only speaker output that will report ALL Areas correct? If so, I may just put the shop speaker on there too (assuming impedance) so I won't require 2 speakers out there...

 

[Del91574]

Pretty sure it's OUT 1 only, but I believe the TWA will split up the speaker outputs and give you rules to control, off the top of my head.
 
Impedance nonwithstanding, I'd look at an audio amp, either 25, 50 or 70V and then go that route. Far easier to drive, less AWG cable and distance.

 

[drvnbysound]

For some reason, I recall the TWA not doing announcements for Areas other than 1...  I really need to look into it again! The pull to my shop was only 75' - not a terrible distance.

 

[mikefamig]

I remember that with the TWA you can turn off any of the three outputs selectively via rules.

 

[mikefamig]

In addition to the cat cable you can install an 18/4 or 16/4 direct bury cable for speaker and/or 12 volt power.
 
By connecting the speaker in the garage to out1 in the house you will get notifications and noise in the event of an alarm in both buildings. I did it this way and I like that if a door or window opens in one building when I am in the other building I will hear it beep or hear the zone name spoken.
 
By having a power cable between the buildings you will have the option of locating the auxiliary power supply in either building and share it as long as you calculate for voltage drop over the length of the cable. I initially had a p212s in the garage and now have a larger altronix supply in the house. By putting it in the house it can be used to supplement the M1 power for devices in the house in addition to powering the garage.
 
Another thing to consider is surge suppression on the cables. I have already had one lightning strike that took out a set top box and an ethernet switch. I installed a Ditek surge suppressor in the garage and still need to install a second one in the house.  You might consider using fiber optic cable instead of cat cable being that it is immune to lightning strike.
 
Hope this helps, Mike.

 

[SIMKO]

Thanks for the responses... My garage is 212' away from the house, so I think running a speaker out there is out of the question without some sort of amp in the house.

In regards to the wireless motions and switches, I am not sure if the distance is enough to warrant a second wireless receiver or a booster.

The biggest reason that I ask the question is that I am going to be pulling wires out to the garage for phone and Internet and figured that I would also pull whatever is needed to hook up a remote panel for the alarm.

 

[mikefamig]

Thanks for the responses... My garage is 212' away from the house, so I think running a speaker out there is out of the question without some sort of amp in the house.

 
My garage is 100' from the house and the 16/4 cable is almost 200' long and the audio output on the M1 out1 drives a speaker in the garage fine. I also power the garage from a power supply in the house with one of those 16awg  pairs. I would have put my aux power supply in the garage if I only needed it for the garage devices but I put it in the house so that I could use it for devices in the house in addition to powering the garage.
 

In regards to the wireless motions and switches, I am not sure if the distance is enough to warrant a second wireless receiver or a booster.

 
The only way to know if the wireless will cover the distance is to try it. Each site is different due to RF interference and metal obstructions that could affect the wireless signal.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

I wouldn't run power from the house to any field expansion in this case.
 
For the audio, I'd be leery as any short/ground will not end pretty. I think the larger question needs to be considered is IF you need or want announcements or audio out there and if it's really necessary.
 
If not, I'd just look into a siren and related relay and call it a day. KISS principal.