False Alarm Problem

[mhbooth]

Hi there, usually I can nut these problems out but this one has me scratching my head?

I have an ELK M1 and it has be working without fault for a couple of years. Recently it started triggering false alarms.

I have cleaned the PIR sensors, checked the logs, re uploaded the account settings using the RP. It happens now on a daily basis, no particular time.

Report shows the Garage Entry and Front Door Entry zones, both of these areas have Quantum PIR sensors, much like the rest of the house. 8 zones in total, 2 smoke, 1 proximity reader, 1 screamer and outdoor siren. I have two keypads one in each of the entry areas that have been triggering. I have not resorted to upgrading firmware yet as I would prefer to identify the problem, not sure this would help anyway.... I am stuck, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

Cheers Boothy..

 

[sic0048]

So I take it the logs don't show anything? Are they even registering an alarm?

Any electrical storms just prior to the events starting to occur? Perhaps there has been some surge that has fried some equipment.

 

[mhbooth]

So I take it the logs don't show anything? Are they even registering an alarm?

Any electrical storms just prior to the events starting to occur? Perhaps there has been some surge that has fried some equipment.

No, nothing in the log and no electrical storms...I have the the electrical side protected anyway..

 

[briankelly63]

When you say triggers a false alarm what do you mean? Are sirens always going off? Does the keypad(s) always indicate a violation has occurred? Is it calling a central station? etc

you mention "Report shows the Garage Entry and Front Door Entry zones" AND?

Brian

 

[mhbooth]

When you say triggers a false alarm what do you mean? Are sirens always going off? Does the keypad(s) always indicate a violation has occurred? Is it calling a central station? etc

you mention "Report shows the Garage Entry and Front Door Entry zones" AND?

Brian

Thanks Brian for asking.

Yes, Sirens going off, keypads indicate violation and a call is placed to the central station..The report log shows that both Garage Entry and Front Door Entry have triggered the violation at the same time..

Strange that today I have not had the alarm false trigger yet...Still more hours in the day left before I get home...

 

[wuench]

When you say triggers a false alarm what do you mean? Are sirens always going off? Does the keypad(s) always indicate a violation has occurred? Is it calling a central station? etc

you mention "Report shows the Garage Entry and Front Door Entry zones" AND?

Brian

Thanks Brian for asking.

Yes, Sirens going off, keypads indicate violation and a call is placed to the central station..The report log shows that both Garage Entry and Front Door Entry have triggered the violation at the same time..

Strange that today I have not had the alarm false trigger yet...Still more hours in the day left before I get home...

I recently had this happening too, I am not sure if it was sunlight/shadows and the time of year or what. I recently replaced those PIRs with dual-tec but now my ceiling fans are setting those off.....sigh....

 

[signal15]

When you say triggers a false alarm what do you mean? Are sirens always going off? Does the keypad(s) always indicate a violation has occurred? Is it calling a central station? etc

you mention "Report shows the Garage Entry and Front Door Entry zones" AND?

Brian

Thanks Brian for asking.

Yes, Sirens going off, keypads indicate violation and a call is placed to the central station..The report log shows that both Garage Entry and Front Door Entry have triggered the violation at the same time..

Strange that today I have not had the alarm false trigger yet...Still more hours in the day left before I get home...

So, to clarify, these are door sensors right, not PIR's?

Are the zones adjacent to each other on your panel? This might be a dumb question, but did you check to see if the wires might be stripped too far and crossing where they attach to the connector block? If these zones have a common ground connector in the panel, did you check it to make sure it's tight?

 

[briankelly63]

We need to break down this problem....

Is it only these two zones?

If you swap these with another zone location on the M1 will the problem follow?

Are these supervised zones (ie: have a resistor at the detector)? Checked the resistance?

Have you checked the closed resistance of the wire leading to the sensor?

Are they set up to be normally open or closed?

There are easy ways to insert something in the sensor circuit or across the sensor circuit to see if its really tripping but look at the other items first...

Brian

 

[mhbooth]

We need to break down this problem....

Is it only these two zones?

If you swap these with another zone location on the M1 will the problem follow?

Are these supervised zones (ie: have a resistor at the detector)? Checked the resistance?

Have you checked the closed resistance of the wire leading to the sensor?

Are they set up to be normally open or closed?

There are easy ways to insert something in the sensor circuit or across the sensor circuit to see if its really tripping but look at the other items first...

Brian

Hi Brian,

Two days and no false alarms yet...

- Yes it is only these two zones..

- No, I have not swapped yet, as will need to call central station and let them know if I do. For me this is best left to the weekend...

- Yes supervised and resistance is correct.

- What do you mean by closed resistance? Are we looking for the nominal voltages when the sensor is in the closed state?

- Wired Normally closed

Thanks again...

Cheers Boothy

 

[briankelly63]

hi.... if you disconnect these zones from the M1 and measure their resistance, keeping in mind the supervision resistance, what do you get?

 

[wuench]

...both of these areas have Quantum PIR sensors...
...I have cleaned the PIR sensors...

I think he is talking PIR sensors....

 

[mhbooth]

hi.... if you disconnect these zones from the M1 and measure their resistance, keeping in mind the supervision resistance, what do you get?

Sorry for the delay, I hope to have the answer on this tonight when I get home...It's 38 C (100 F) here at the moment and our air conditioner has stopped working so I have been working on that problem..It's going to be even hotter over the next three days.

Thanks for your help and patience..

Cheers

Boothy