HAI 2 WIRE SMOKES

[premiernic]

I wired for 4 wire smokes, but A wire got penetrated and I am going to have to switch to two wire smoke detectors. I am using a HAI omni pro 2 panel.
I have system sensor smokes, and would like to know what reversing relay people have used with this application and see if anyone has a wiriung diagram?

 

[PaulD]

Find and fix that wire break if at all possible. The 2 wire setup does not use a reversing relay and has no ability to drive any sounders in a 2 wire smoke alarm setup. With the 2 wire, they are detectors only...not alarms.
I screwed up and allowed builder to run 2 wire in my new house before I recognized the difference. As a result, to meet my local code (requires sounders in each room vs general area alarm) I had to install a simple DSC alarm panel to do nothing but drive my smoke alarms. OPII will not do that.

 

[Steve]

Are you sure about that? I believe there are several people using the RRS-MOD on a 2 wire system. That said, on my upcoming re-configuration I am using 2 wire without sounders and using piezo screamers around the house instead. I still have the original 120v smokes in place so not worried about potential code issues

 

[PaulD]

Are you sure about that? I believe there are several people using the RRS-MOD on a 2 wire system. That said, on my upcoming re-configuration I am using 2 wire without sounders and using piezo screamers around the house instead. I still have the original 120v smokes in place so not worried about potential code issues

I would love it if you are correct. Nothing like that shows up in any HAI documentation I have found. The wiring diagram for the RRS-MOD shows 5 wires hooking up to a control panel. I would like someone from HAI to chime in here to confirm how the 5 wires hook to a HAI panel.

EDIT - I forgot to mention that I have corresponded with HAI on how to use sounders in a 2 wire circuit and their response was that they did not have any approved method to do that. That may mean that they cannot endorse the RRS-MOD approach because it has not been tested and certified.

 

[Steve]

Take a look at this thread. Granted the Elk panel is discussed but I would assume it would work the same for HAI. Read the last post #14.

 

[Digger]

The bigger issue has the System Sensor 2 wire smoke with sounder been evaluated by HAI and UL to be compatible with the HAI Panel? Just because the reversing relay will "work" with just about any panel does not mean that the detector will work with the panel.

The System Sensor detector with sounder (cant remember the model off the top of my head) has different ratings and specification then the version without the sounder.

If HAI is not blessing it I would not use it (only my opinion).

 

[Steve]

Does HAI have a published list of 'blessed' 2 wire detectors?

 

[premiernic]

Thanks for the responses folks. I am not worried about any code, as I have a piezo screamer outside of most rooms and I only have to meet a "decibal at the pillow" level which I am good on. I am just looking to use some system sensor wta2b smokes and would like any insight on whether that will be fine. If I dont use a reversing relay I can just disarm bypass the zone correct?

 

[premiernic]

Find and fix that wire break if at all possible. The 2 wire setup does not use a reversing relay and has no ability to drive any sounders in a 2 wire smoke alarm setup. With the 2 wire, they are detectors only...not alarms.
I screwed up and allowed builder to run 2 wire in my new house before I recognized the difference. As a result, to meet my local code (requires sounders in each room vs general area alarm) I had to install a simple DSC alarm panel to do nothing but drive my smoke alarms. OPII will not do that.

No way to fix the break> I know exactly where it is, and it is behind a super expensive custom wood wall. :lol:
I have no code issues, I just am trying to get them to work. For everyone's personal reference just remember when wiring smoke loops to make it a loop. My employee decided not to run the loop back to my panel. Had he done that I could just make 2 loops by backfeeding the return, and it would take the chain with my broke wires right out of the loop. Live and learn.

 

[premiernic]

Ok, so I have the answer to set the record straight!
In order to use two wire smokes on an HAI panel, use System Sensor 2Wta-b Two Wire Smoke Detectors. you will also need a system sensor RRS Mod. This is a reversing relay to reverse the polarity of the power.
The last piece to the puzzle is you will need a System Sensor 2WMod2 device. The 2WMod2 is a "maintenance module"
System sensors tech support has all the wiring diagrams necessary.
The suggested way to go is to use four wires, but if you end up in a jam, this is the way to go.

 

[Steve]

Well, I think the 2WMod2 is only needed if the panel does not support the cleaning signal which the OPII probably doesn't. You should be fine though with just the RRS-MOD and then again that is only really needed if you want all built in sounders to go off at the same time and in sync. If you already have piezo screams in the right places, forget the RRS-MOD and 2WMod2 and just hookup the smokes, then write a rule to turn on Piezos during a fire alarm.

 

[premiernic]

Well, I think the 2WMod2 is only needed if the panel does not support the cleaning signal which the OPII probably doesn't. You should be fine though with just the RRS-MOD and then again that is only really needed if you want all built in sounders to go off at the same time and in sync. If you already have piezo screams in the right places, forget the RRS-MOD and 2WMod2 and just hookup the smokes, then write a rule to turn on Piezos during a fire alarm.

Steve would you mind emailing me [email protected]
I am a bit confused by a wiring diagram and feel as if you are knowledgable and may be able to help

 

[Steve]

I will be happy to help any way I can, but I think I would rather try to do it in this thread (in public) so that if it all works others later can benefit from the knowledge/documentation. All of System Sensors diagrams are online - just link to it or copy it and add annotations to it or something and post it here and ask away.

Disclaimer: I have not hooked up smokes to HAI panel yet, this is all theory. I will have smokes on HAI probably in a few weeks and can then better say from experience. But what I described in my last post is what my current personal plan is anyway.

 

[Digger]

I have to chime in again and say that you really need to consider do you want to use a detector unless you have verified it is compatible with the panel? Did you check the installation instructions to see if the detector is on the list of 2 wire detectors for the panel you have?

This is life safety and you do not want to have a situation where the detector does not operate because of a compatibility issue.

 

[premiernic]

I will be happy to help any way I can, but I think I would rather try to do it in this thread (in public) so that if it all works others later can benefit from the knowledge/documentation. All of System Sensors diagrams are online - just link to it or copy it and add annotations to it or something and post it here and ask away.

Disclaimer: I have not hooked up smokes to HAI panel yet, this is all theory. I will have smokes on HAI probably in a few weeks and can then better say from experience. But what I described in my last post is what my current personal plan is anyway.

Steve, look at these diagrams and talk me through what you would do in my situation? Thanks
View attachment modulewiring__2_.pdf