Hi Everybody!

[Obsolete]

Just stumbled across this site while looking for more information on HAI systems. I have one that I installed about 10 years ago and it works, but my wife was looking for me to upgrade it. I will be honest, at the time, I was building the house and paid little attention to all the details that these devices need to be truly full HA - but as an alarm it works. I also installed the Compose PLC to go with it and wish I hadn't....
 
The want list:

1. I want to have smartphone access to the alarm. Since we all keep our phones with us, it would be easy for arm/disarming.
2. Phone access to cameras would be nice too (no existing cameras now).
3. HA options - some lights to go with the security features would be great (in/outdoor - for safety and crime deterrent).
4. Integration of existing hardwired smokes for monitoring purposes. (no existing monitoring at the moment)
5. Two way voice
6. Call out via IP with 3/4G backup?

The have list:

1. HAI Omni II (not the IIE and not the Pro :-(   I was apparently a few months too soon when buying!)
2. Two Omni keypads (not two way units)
3. Two Omni T-Stats
4. Compose PLC Firewall and a number of switches, dimmers all around the house.
5. Six hardwired motion detectors

The initial install was to get the basics done and then to add to the system as time and funding permitted. I never got back to doing anything more as the motion detectors served our needs when we were away. Now with changing needs, I think its time to address intrusion while home issue. Door contacts and glass breaks for some areas and two way voice monitoring to get the cops out fast!
 
I need help! - I am at a crossroad and don't know which direction to take.
 
Do I upgrade the board to the Omni IIe or scrap it and go with a totally new system? 
 
Thanks in advance!
 
 
 
 

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to Cocoontech Obsolete.
 
Read on and keep asking questions. 
 
Many of the Cocoontech folks here utilize Leviton/HAI and Elk M1 panels, many utilize software with the panels and many use software only for their automation.
 
Me I have two HAI OPII panels active today.  Always have worked fine for me.  I am a happy camper.
 
That said I will suggest that you stick with Leviton HAI for security and a bit of automation; that is my opinion. 
 
What is your timeframe and budget?  Are you a DIYer or do your prefer to subcontract your stuff? 

 

[Obsolete]

Welcome to Cocoontech Obsolete.
 
Read on and keep asking questions. 
 
Many of the Cocoontech folks here utilize Leviton/HAI and Elk M1 panels, many utilize software with the panels and many use software only for their automation.
 
Me I have two HAI OPII panels active today.  Always have worked fine for me.  I am a happy camper.
 
That said I will suggest that you stick with Leviton HAI for security and a bit of automation; that is my opinion. 
 
What is your timeframe and budget?  Are you a DIYer or do your prefer to subcontract your stuff? 

Hi Pete, thanks for the quick reply! To answer your questions:
 
Budget lo, time hi ;-)  - I was looking at the prices of the IP cameras and was having palpitations!
 
DIY, I have experience in residential wiring (line), have wired the existing cat 5 home network, coax, etc. Get a little lost in the programming side of things, but can reason things out given enough time. (usually ;0)  I like to keep control of my equipment and I abhor contracts. I also don't care for service personel rummaging through my house.
 
I value your opinion, I was dissappointed in how the board I have is fairly osbolete. Aside from running an always on home server with Omni webaccess, there is no easy way that I can think of to have smartphone access to the omni model I have. 

 

[pete_c]

Yup; here utilize Grandstream IPHD cams and they work fine with my Omnitouch old and new (with a bit of tweaking).
 
While really low on the WAF; wife helped me wire a new home with contractors permission.  It took us 3 days. 
 
DIYing your stuff is always a nice way to learn about whoat you have (service wise) and how to fix it.e
 
Here at Cocoontech many / most folks have DIY'd their stuff.
 
If you are running web access then Snaplink should also work.  Here also utilize OmniTouch Pro on Wintel (xpe machines).

 

[Obsolete]

Thanks Pete - I didn't buy the web access program, but from what I read, the SnapLink won't work with my Omni II (not IIe) because it doesn't have an ethernet port.
Agreed, DIY is necessary unless you have the funds to keep servicing these units! Good job on your low voltage wiring - 3 days is good! I assume you did quite a bit of stringing ;-)

 

[pete_c]

For the new construction the security / alarm wiring was done by an Alarm / Security company contractor.  They were very good at what they did.
 
The rest of the LV wiring was easy with no walls up.
 
As you are DIYing your endeavour; adding more wiring is no big deal. (end costs of devices - PIRs, smokes, et al is negligible.)
 
There are two companies today that provide a combination of security and automation panel.  One is the Leviton and the other is Elk.
 
The combination security and alarm panels are not cloud dependant and will let you manage your own stuff.
 
Look at other options and compare what you have, what you want and your DIY costs relating to said piece of your endeavour.
 
Lighting  / switch / light bulb technologies have changed a bit these days.  Decide what you want with this. 
 
Note that the spend for multiple light automation switches can be higher than the rest of the stuff you want to do.  Guesstimate some numbers here of $50-$150 or more per switch.
 
Over the years here went from X10 (late 1970's) to Insteon to UPB.  I am happy today using my in wall UPB switches. 
 
X-10 worked fine for me from the late 1970's up until the 2000's.  IE: what you have in place today must have worked OK for a few years and its still in place today at your home.
 
I have upgraded many of these UPB switches to multiple toggle, dual load switches. 
 
Today you can though choose from interconnecting LV (low voltage) wires to switches which control high voltage loads, pure powerline, powerline/wireless hybrids and wireless.  Whatever you decide assume that you will not want to change it in the next couple of years mostly because its time consuming and can cost you some.  Look too at what your combination security / automation panel talks to today and hopefully tomorrow.  (here while my in wall switches are all UPB, my panel talks X10, Z-Wave and UPB).  I do also have Zigbee and Insteon in place mostly because I play with stuff.
 
Personally my preferences relate to using wired connectivity for anything relating to security.  I have left the contractor installed HV (120 VAC) with battery smokes and have added wired LV smokes to my home.  PIR's / occupancy sensors are wired.  Looks a bit busy but that is my preference. 
 
I have wired consoles / touchscreens which are not internet dependant for functions.  I can utilize wireless tablets or mobile phones to manage my stuff if I want.  I can though get to my home with anything on the internet and do anything I want with the automation / security stuff.
 
Learn a bit about the basics of networking, firewalls, so forth and so on.  It does help today to know this stuff and its mostly common sense stuff. 
 
Do baby steps deciding what you want and how much you want to spend and what you want to do in the immediate future.
 
If you are OK with your current security stuff; then wait on the spend and maybe upgrade your lighting technology first or vice versa.
 
Plan it, document what you want to do baby step wise.  Budget your costs including your DIY time. 
 
Take the steps of starting if you want...purchase a new panel, start adding wiring, maybe start with your switches.  It'll be initially time mostly and monies spent.  Choose wisely; read over here on the forum.  Ask a lot of questions.  Many folks here have done what you are doing.
 
Just the HV electrical stuff can consume much in DIY time and monies.  (think about time and monies spent per switch, modding or upgrading your fuse panel, checking you HV wPersonally here when I upgraded my HV stuff I also went to neatening up the fuse panel, adding circuits to the fuse panel, adding automation stuff to the fuse panel.wiring, maybe adding a generator or whole house surge supression or more circuits).
 
Same as the LV electrical stuff.  Here I am into audio.  Over the years started with some 8 autonomous zoned areas of audio and today at some 12 + 8 =20 areas of audio.  (I am into wired speakers versus wireless - but that is me).  You may want to add more LV wiring for more security stuff relating to PIRs, Smokes, switches (doors and windows type of stuff).
 
BTW I am not into the cloud connected wireless thermostat nor smoke detector. That is me though. 
 
Doing little pieces at a time while keeping the big picture of what you want to do in your head.  It really will not be that time consuming if you look at your endeavour this way. 
 
Know your personal knowledge base and methodologies on what you can do. 
 
IE: DIYing your own LV/HV electrical is easy if you know or are confident in your abilities; if not plan to subcontract an electrician or LV cable person(money and timewise)).  
 
Finding one company that does automation / security HV Electricity, LV wiring, software and hardware, networking stuff is difficult today without a substantial spend.  You can though a la carte the automation endeavor or just ask here and go slow.
 
Sometimes I think some folks assume that a wireless automation switch provides electricity to a light bulb in a magical sense and forget that we are not at a point of wireless HV electricity yet.  You can though today purchase a light bulb that is remote controllable without a switch.  Personally I like having a switch for a light bulb(s) in my home. 
 
A new automation push is to utilize one automation wireless/hybrid protocol that will do all of your automaton and security. 
 
This is really sort of a mickey mouse solution; but its fast and easy and cheap and sells with the right advertising.   (note this is my opinion).

 

[Obsolete]

<<Plan it, document what you want to do baby step wise.>>

Agreed.
 
It would be hard to turn this system into something it is not...
 
With that in mind, first baby step - improve safety and security of system. Wireless sensors for hard to/impossible to wire areas.
 
For that I would assume I need a wireless expander for the Omni II and the assorted sensors.
 
This would allow me to create DAY zones using perimeter type settings and door contacts, glass breaks too.. What do you think?
thanks

 

[tmbrown97]

Welcome!
 
I would think the good news is that if you wanted to upgrade the Omni, it wouldn't be too horrific... you could reuse much of what you have.
 
IP Cameras can be expensive but there are lots of great options ~$150 or less - and the quality of picture blows away anything analog.  Network Recorders are getting reasonable too - or if you have some hardware laying around, BlueIris is a great value.

 

[pete_c]

Good news Obsolete!  Let us know how it goes; ask question and tell us what you do.  
 

Wireless sensors for hard to/impossible to wire areas.
For that I would assume I need a wireless expander for the Omni II and the assorted sensors.
 
This would allow me to create DAY zones using perimeter type settings and door contacts, glass breaks too.. What do you think?

 
Nothing is impossible.  My preference here is to use wireless as a last resort.    With the right tools you can do anything.  Describe an impossible location in your home.
 
That said it's understood that some places are difficult to get to.  Personally I just don't like to concern myself with batteries.  I am guessing that the HAI wireless expanders should work with your board.
 
I use the HAI wireless expanders here and there:
 
Here have the Leviton HAI 45A001 and the Leviton HAI LV42A002; but I do not use them much and there have one Leviton HAI 45A001 and I do use it a bit.  I think you can also use Interlogix/Ge wireless expanders with your OPII panel.  The one on the left is way smaller than the one on the right.
 

 

[Obsolete]

Welcome!
 
I would think the good news is that if you wanted to upgrade the Omni, it wouldn't be too horrific... you could reuse much of what you have.
 
IP Cameras can be expensive but there are lots of great options ~$150 or less - and the quality of picture blows away anything analog.  Network Recorders are getting reasonable too - or if you have some hardware laying around, BlueIris is a great value.

Thanks Work2Play
 
The price would be the only horrific thing, close to $700 to replace a board that I would have had if I had waited a few months back then.... You know the feeling, you buy a model and as soon as you start working with it, they bring out a better one ;-(
 
Agreed, the quality of picture and zoom capability of the digital cameras is amazing. PoE and many systems have simple pnp with self addressing makes very good arguments for going this route. Do you have any names you would like to share that are in those prices ranges? Any NVR you could recommend?
 
 

Good news Obsolete!  Let us know how it goes; ask question and tell us what you do.  
 
 
Nothing is impossible.  My preference here is to use wireless as a last resort.    With the right tools you can do anything.  Describe an impossible location in your home.
 
That said it's understood that some places are difficult to get to.  Personally I just don't like to concern myself with batteries.  I am guessing that the HAI wireless expanders should work with your board.
 
I use the HAI wireless expanders here and there:
 
Here have the Leviton HAI 45A001 and the Leviton HAI LV42A002; but I do not use them much and there have one Leviton HAI 45A001 and I do use it a bit.  I think you can also use Interlogix/Ge wireless expanders with your OPII panel.  The one on the left is way smaller than the one on the right.
 

LOL, oh, I know that nothing is impossible! hahaha, I made a mistake when I wired the system - I thought that you could use cat5 for all of it.... guess what, it all works and for over 10 years!!
Even my sounder is on cat5 and it works fine too. LOL, that was a stupid mistake... but during the building process, this was an area that did not get enough time and attention.
Live and learn.
 
As to the location of the impossible zones - front door comes to mind. Cathedral ceiling above it, so no access from above, one side is solid concrete, the other side is a stud cavity. The stud cavity has no overhead access either.  There is a glass transom above the door. Between the door and glass is a 2x8 header. Pretty much inaccessible, at least to the methods I can think of. Ripping drywall down is out of the question for me, just not worthwhile. I too prefer wire over wireless - seen too many issues with signals failing on wireless devices and if they can't get to the wires, they can't cut them ;-)
 
Thanks guys.

 

[pete_c]

front door comes to mind. Cathedral ceiling above it

 
Same here and went through the basement in a two story home.  Updating the doorbell (partly automated) used the small wood framing between side glass panels.  It was a PITA to do.
 
Another home alarm wiring guru's put the front door wiring in the wood cavity of a decorative front door with an arched wooden framed glass. 
 
These days much of that whole front door security thing and panel connectivity uses the doorbell button or integration into some CCTV stuff.

 

[Obsolete]

I forgot to mention that the building is slab on grade so no crawl space or basement! I don't take to saying 'impossible' lightly - within the confines of aesthetically and financially feasible. I had thought of getting a bit into the wall and maybe drilling the backside of the drywall, but I know how easily the bit would just pop out!!  
 
So what I am looking at to start is :  
 

Omni IIe             $668 - will give me ethernet port and access to alarm from cell phone. Future smart upgrades like IP cameras
Wireless xpander     $250 - wireless sensor zones
Wired xpander        $100
Misc. sensors        $240 - mix of wireless and wired sensors
3g/4g backup to c.s. $ ? ?