HVAC Frustration. Need Advice

[ano]

Maybe some parts not as helpful.  So the report says adding 7" of insulation will take me 17.5 years to recover the cost. 
 
It says a variable speed pool pump costs $1300 after the $200 rebate and will take 7.6 years to pay for itsef.  But I read those variable speed pumps are complex, and they rarely last more than 3 or 4 years. (My plan old 1 HP pump motor only lasts 4 or 5 years at best.)
 
So I can save energy, but the odds of getting the money back are slight. 
 
They gave me a nice energy saving shower head, but the report says it will only save $3.25 a year.  The extra $3.25 a year is worth it to have a nice shower. 

 

[Madcodger]

For outside air exchange, look into energy recovery ventilators, heat recovery ventilators.

 

[Ranger Digital]

If anyone has EVER figured out how to control a trane unit with comfortlink II controls, please advise. I ahve been told there is no work around Tranes proprietery protocal with HAI. If you can do it, i will pay you to tell me how! LOL. Have two new 20 sear top of the line units and cant control with anything but tranes worthless, ugly, waste of space thermostats.

 

[ano]

Nothing can stop a Trane and nothing can control it either.  The protocol is proprietary and they want to keep it that way.  The offer a home automation solution and they want you to us it (and pay them a monthly fee) or not use any. 
 
I do see that you can control the system through their web portal, and currently they don't charge money for that (but they used to.) 
 
I most likely will not put a Trane system in my house for that reason, but I was wondering, can you control ANYTHING on it?  For example, I'm guessing their fancy thermostat has "home" and "away" temp settings as that is pretty standard.  Is there ANY way to have that set automatically?  Or am I hearing you have to walk up to the thermostat every time you leave or enter the house and set this manually?  I might be able to like with the remote access, but I CAN'T live with having to set the thermostat everytime I leave or enter the house.  I set my alarm, and that is ALL that I'm setting.

 

[apostolakisl]

I don't know anything about the trane, however, if it can be controlled from a website, then you can then write applications to control the thermostat via the website.  This has been done for the nest thermostat which also is all proprietary.  It certainly isn't the most elegant solution, but what can you do.

 

[ano]

I have thought about that, but the thought of having to run a script against a web site to talk with a system in your own house is a bit much for me.  Besides, while QCQ with lots of work might be able to potentially pull that off, I mostly just access my HAI system remotely with Haiku, and they can't do such tricks.  I think a better solution is not to buy Trane, then write them a letter on why they lost my business. 

 

[signal15]

I have a Trane furnace (it was here when I purchased the house).  But, mine doesn't have the ComfortLink system in it, it just has a regular board.  Could you have your's retrofitted with a dumb board?

 

[ano]

I've been thinking more. Yes, dangerous I know.  How about if I get a regular unit WITHOUT the zone control, and that unit will be controlled with a regular Omnistat2.  Then I have the AC folks add in three 24V dampers that I can control with the Omni relays.  So the Omni would be the zone controller?  I could put a temp sensor in each zone and I could use the set points to control the dampers.  At most, I would only close ONE damper to reduce back pressure.  Does this sound workable?

 

[apostolakisl]

I've been thinking more. Yes, dangerous I know.  How about if I get a regular unit WITHOUT the zone control, and that unit will be controlled with a regular Omnistat2.  Then I have the AC folks add in three 24V dampers that I can control with the Omni relays.  So the Omni would be the zone controller?  I could put a temp sensor in each zone and I could use the set points to control the dampers.  At most, I would only close ONE damper to reduce back pressure.  Does this sound workable?

 
Yes.  
 
You could add static pressure sensors in the plenum and program in all kinds of logic for what speeds to run the fan/compressor and all.  If you also include the outdoor temp in your logic as well as the delta between the desired temp and the actual temp, and rates of rise/fall of temp, you can vary the system pressure based on those things.  In other words, if it is very hot outside, the system may choose to run a higher pressure (and thus more cfm's), or if the unit is not seeing the temp move quickly enough toward set point it would want to run higher cfm's/tons of cooling.  There will be a minimum and maximum static value that the manufacturer calls for on the unit that you would set as your bounds of operation.  This all can get a bit complex, which is why the manufacturers have programmed all that stuff into their boards and sell them pre-programmed.

 

[ano]

Only 3 zones here so it probably won't be all that elaborate.  Maybe just close one zone max at a time. 
 
With an Omni Pro II connected to a OmniStat2,  will the panel KNOW if its running at high or low?  Will I be able to CONTROL if it will run at high or low? My impression was that you set your temp and the OmniStat picks high/low based on far the temp is from the set temp.  And I don't see anything that would tell you if it was on high or low. 
 
I think we all know that the Omni is not the smartest automation system on the block, as it would be hard pressed just t add 1 + 1 = 2. With temp sensors you basically just have a low and high temp set point and the Omni can't even so much tell you if its below the low one or above the high one.  Maybe controlling it would be as simply closing a duct in an area with no motion detected.  Can you even problematically change a senor's set points?  

 

[signal15]

I've been thinking more. Yes, dangerous I know.  How about if I get a regular unit WITHOUT the zone control, and that unit will be controlled with a regular Omnistat2.  Then I have the AC folks add in three 24V dampers that I can control with the Omni relays.  So the Omni would be the zone controller?  I could put a temp sensor in each zone and I could use the set points to control the dampers.  At most, I would only close ONE damper to reduce back pressure.  Does this sound workable?

 
Or, get the RCS zone controller for $250 that can use any thermostat.

 

[ano]

Or, get the RCS zone controller for $250 that can use any thermostat.

 
I could do that. Since no contractor would install such a system, I could do it after they leave.  They are installing the dampers and that is the hard part.

 

[apostolakisl]

I could do that. Since no contractor would install such a system, I could do it after they leave.  They are installing the dampers and that is the hard part.

 
Installing dampers is actually pretty easy provided you can get to the ducts without cramming yourself into some obscure corner of a dirty, covered with itchy fiberglass attic.  Doing all the ducts and plenums is the hard part, once they are in place, sticking a damper in is a pretty small job.  But that might be what you mean.

 

[ano]

So this has been a learning experience.  Went round and round with several contractors, but FINALLY got one that listened to me and helped me get it worked out.  In the process, the last contractor had me speak with a company specializing in HAI installations.  This guy suggested that I control the dampers with HAI relays, using a temp sensor in each room.  I was just about to do that when I started to think of all the work involved and the ever popular "what happens if we sell this house?" question.  So I've gone full circle, and going with Honeywell components and a Honeywell zone controller and Trane AC/Heat.  Let the zone controller figure out the dampers, I'll use Omnistats to control the rooms.  By the way, 3 or the 4 contractors WOULDN'T have installed this, because for whatever reason, they don't like the Honeywell system. Yes the Trane zone controller is probably better, with no bypass damper required, but it is not controllable, which is a BIG negative for me.  
 
I'm also adding a Honeywell Air Exchanger.  I thought a long time about this with lots of pros and cons.  I have a very sealed-up house, and I have a slight radon problem, both of those reasons had me look at it.  From what I read I can always shut it off and likely will when its very hot or cold out.  Controlling this is still an unknown, but turning it on and off shouldn't be too hard.  
 
So I'm happy the way this went, but not for the faint at heart.  The good news on price is that the Honeywell zone control will add less than $1000 to the total as opposed to $4500+ for Trane's solution.  The air exchanger is roughly $1400 installed.   

 

[apostolakisl]

I am not convinced the air exchanger is worth the money.  I put one in at home for about that price, but decided to just draw plain, not heat exchanged, fresh air in at the office.  The savings in energy are quite minimal and I really doubt you will ever recoup your $1400 investment.  You just don't need that much fresh air that the added fuel use heating/cooling it amounts to more than a few bucks per month.  It would be more valuable in an exceedingly cold environment where outside temps are 70 to 90 degrees different inside to outside.  In hot climates where you are 30 to 40 degrees different at most, its a tough one to justify.  And remember, those temp differences only exist for parts of the year, not the entire year.  In more temperate months it won't save diddly.  And you can set your dampers for fresh air to only open at night in the summer and during the day in the winter further reducing the temp difference.
 
EDIT: And if you can get them to put in appropriately sized ducts, then your pressure relief valve may never need to open at all.  HVAC systems have a min and max plenum pressure to work properly and also not damage the equipment.  If you can get your ducts big enough on each zone to be in that range with only one zone or 2 zones open on low speed, and also stay in range with all 3 zones open in high speed, then the pressure relief won't be necessary or maybe it only cracks open a little bit at certain times.