Insteon dual band versus single band

[Skripo]

I am about to place a large order to automate my home with Insteon and the ISY99PRO IR controller.

My question is about the communication reliability when mixing single and dual band switches. My first instinct was to go with dual band all the way but after 30 or more switches that can be expensive so I want to know,

1) If I don't need the dimmer will I have the same reliability if I put one dual band dimmer and 2 single band switches in one gang box as if I put all dual band dimmers?

2) What about the slave in a 3 way? I know about the wiring, its the reliability I am concerned about.

Thank you.

 

[apostolakisl]

I am about to place a large order to automate my home with Insteon and the ISY99PRO IR controller.

My question is about the communication reliability when mixing single and dual band switches. My first instinct was to go with dual band all the way but after 30 or more switches that can be expensive so I want to know,

1) If I don't need the dimmer will I have the same reliability if I put one dual band dimmer and 2 single band switches in one gang box as if I put all dual band dimmers?

2) What about the slave in a 3 way? I know about the wiring, its the reliability I am concerned about.

Thank you.

I have about 80 devices in my house of 6500sf. I only have 4 dual band devices (plus a dual band PLM). I have a total of 3 filters on a few bad boys I identified causing noise. The system worked 99% without the dual bands. I installed most of my system before dual bands existed. I don't think you should need to worry about going 100% dual band.

And the "slave" is no different than any other switch in your house. Having two switches in the same gang box, or having them on a different panel on the opposite of the house really doesn't make much difference. Pretty much you just have to worry about noise makers in the house. If you have no noise makers, and you have your phases coupled, everything will work everywhere. x10 20 amp noise filters are very cheap on ebay and are nice to use on entire circuits that might have a problem fridge or other device. The Insteon plug in filters are nice to use if you have some troublesome AV equipment. I have heard of people having issues with CFL bulbs, I have not. I have not heard of probs with LED's, and again, I have lots of led's and no prob there. The only real problem I had was a transformer for some low voltage lights. The other stuff I filtered was only identified by using the ISY's scene test which counts hops for you. Fewer hops means better comm.

 

[az1324]

I would only put dual band dimmers in:

• locations that are going to have trouble receiving the powerline signal (due to close electrical proximity to a noise source or electrically distant from other devices)
• physically spaced intervals to extend the RF coverage area

Any switches electrically close to a dual band switch should have no problem receiving the powerline signal from the dual band switch so I don't see any reason to put more than one in a wall box or on a multi-way circuit.

 

[Skripo]

The rep at a reputable dealer advised me to install all dual band because it is the future and everything will eventually go that way.

I trust him because the price difference is small enough that it makes no difference to him and he probably sees more issues in 3 days than most of us experience in the lifetime of our system.

Is there any disadvantage in going all dual band other than cost?

Should I be concerned about heat and space in my multiple 3 gang switches?

Thanks again.

 

[gatchel]

Should I be concerned about heat and space in my multiple 3 gang switches?

You should check the manual. There are de-rating calculations based on the number of dimmer devices in a box. I think you have to drop the rating 200w per adjacent dimmer. Relay switches do not count, (I think). Double check.

 

[apostolakisl]

The rep at a reputable dealer advised me to install all dual band because it is the future and everything will eventually go that way.

I trust him because the price difference is small enough that it makes no difference to him and he probably sees more issues in 3 days than most of us experience in the lifetime of our system.

Is there any disadvantage in going all dual band other than cost?

Should I be concerned about heat and space in my multiple 3 gang switches?

Thanks again.

There is no disadvantage to all dual band that I have ever heard. Certainly I have never experienced any issue with my dual bands. I don't really think "it is the way of the future" as a reason to put them in. The reason you would use all dual band switches is if you want to completely elliminate ever having to hunt down a power line noise issue. SH I believe recoommends one dual band per thousand feet of house spaced appropriately. You can call and ask to confirm that number, it might be every 1500.

And yes, as mentioned, SH does de-rate the wattage when there are multiples. Keep in mind, that this applies to load switches only. The load on a "slave" switch is zero. The triac's in the dimmers create some heat which is dumped via the alluminum flanges on the switch. If you have multiple switches in a box, the heat builds up, and of course, heat is the enemy of electornics. But relay switches have no triac and slave switches' triacs are unused.

 

[BLH]

Some of the Dual Band Modules are slightly larger.
The KeypadLinc Relay is one of them. I believe it is 1/4" deeper.

 

[Skripo]

Thank you for all your help. I used your comments to finalize my order today with Aartech and look forward to participating in the CocconTech community.

 

[Skripo]

Forgot to mention that I am putting 2 or more dual bands per floor.

Thanks again.