Insteon or Zwave

[bdee1]

Hi - i recenly moved and left all of my insteon gear behind at the request of the new homeowner. so i am looking at starting over in my new house. I was going to go with insteon again but some people are suggesting that i go with Z-wave or UPB instead.

I am wondering if anyone can comment on the reliablity of Insteon vs Z-Wave or UPB. It seems that Z-wave and UPB dont have the same variety of products that insteon does (keypadlincs, ir-lincs...). but is it more reliable? is that the trade off? It looks like insteon has dual band modules now which is supposed to improve reliability - is reliability still an issue with insteon these days?

also where do most people get their z-wave and UPB gear? is it more expensive then insteon

i use homeseer so i could use the best of each tech but since i dont have any experience with anything other than insteon i am looking for some input on the other technologies.

 

[theidel]

Hi - i recenly moved and left all of my insteon gear behind at the request of the new homeowner. so i am looking at starting over in my new house. I was going to go with insteon again but some people are suggesting that i go with Z-wave or UPB instead.

I am wondering if anyone can comment on the reliablity of Insteon vs Z-Wave or UPB. It seems that Z-wave and UPB dont have the same variety of products that insteon does (keypadlincs, ir-lincs...). but is it more reliable? is that the trade off? It looks like insteon has dual band modules now which is supposed to improve reliability - is reliability still an issue with insteon these days?

also where do most people get their z-wave and UPB gear? is it more expensive then insteon

i use homeseer so i could use the best of each tech but since i dont have any experience with anything other than insteon i am looking for some input on the other technologies.

The first question I would have to ask is "How was your previous experience with INSTEON?"

I moved into my new home about 3 years ago and was faced with same dilemma. I had a mix of X-10 and INSTEON in my older home. I wasn't interested in UPB or Z-wave since the number of available devices was limited as you said. Three years later, the same thing can be said of UPB and Z-wave. Not much available, what is available is scattered, complicated and kluge.

I have been increasing my INSTEON installation over the three years where I have over 70 devices including dimmers, relay switches, KeypadLincs, Motion Sensors, TriggerLinc Door Contacts and more. I have not had any problems except for a noisy plasma TV that was solved with a plug-in filter. I did pre-install a Phase Coupler in addition to a few Plug -in Access Points, but that was probably overkill on my part. My wife gave me the eye-roll when I started since she didnt care for the X-10 "cascading clicks" when every thing was turning off.

Looking forward with INSTEON coming out with the dual-band LampLinc, it makes me believe others are right behind. That will make me (and the wife) real happy since I can ditch the Access Points then.

I visited the Z-wave booth at CES and I saw some new things, but it seemed that these devices apparently are supposed to all work together, but it makes you wonder. I feel much at ease with my decision to go with INSTEON.

Good Luck in what ever way you decide to go, but I thought I would give my two cents.

 

[Deane Johnson]

My experience with Smarthome branded products over the years would make it a no-brainer. It would be Z-Wave about 100:1. My previous Smarthome switches are all in a land fill.

 

[Monk]

Hi - i recenly moved and left all of my insteon gear behind at the request of the new homeowner. so i am looking at starting over in my new house. I was going to go with insteon again but some people are suggesting that i go with Z-wave or UPB instead.

I am wondering if anyone can comment on the reliablity of Insteon vs Z-Wave or UPB. It seems that Z-wave and UPB dont have the same variety of products that insteon does (keypadlincs, ir-lincs...). but is it more reliable? is that the trade off? It looks like insteon has dual band modules now which is supposed to improve reliability - is reliability still an issue with insteon these days?

also where do most people get their z-wave and UPB gear? is it more expensive then insteon

i use homeseer so i could use the best of each tech but since i dont have any experience with anything other than insteon i am looking for some input on the other technologies.

I can only talk about my personal experience

1. HomeSeer has good Zwave support - that was one of my reasons for first trying Homeseer as my automation software.
2. At first I was using some cheap switches that I wasn't happy with. I now have Leviton switches that work very well.

The End.

 

[Techno_Goof]

Haven't tried UPB or Z-Wave but ...

I have over 50 Insteon devices and couldn't be happier! I also use HomeSeer and Mark has done an awesome job revamping the free Insteon plug-in.

 

[gatchel]

I have had about 25% failure on my installed insteon devices. I would try something different, if it were me, just to try something different. Yes, the lack of a KPL would be a bummer but that's a price that might be worth it in the long run.

 

[Digger]

Older Insteon devices from SH had significant problems with quality (it is all over the net posted by many different people). Newer Insteon devices from Smarthome do not seem to have anywhere as near the QC problems from the past, at least not yet (I havent seen a recall in almost a year since the Icon switches were recalled for the diode burning up).

I have not seen any significant problems posted on the net for UPB or ZWAVE products. Insteon installations used to require accesspoints to get around signal suckers and noise, however, Smarthome seems to be building accesspoints into most devices making them dual mesh to fix the communications issues in those installations. You should check the UDI forums about the new dual mesh devices where they do not censor the postings like they do on the Smarthome Forum.

Insteon may be at a turning point if the new devices work. Personally I would only buy I2 devices (or at least the majority) so you dont have some of the problems people have mentioned mixing I1 and I2 devices.

With Smarthome it is always buyer beware. But if you have been very happy with them then why not? I agree the newer keypads are great.

 

[pete_c]

bdee1 - let us know what you decide.

I'm still on the fence will dabble a little bit at a time with adding UPB and Z-Wave to the mix.

I replaced all my legacy X-10 "stuff" with Insteon a few years back. All the insteon switches are set up as X-10 switches.

The HAI panel only talks to the X-10 side right now and still manages most of my day to day lighting.

My HS box only talks Insteon to the same switches with unique events, lighting control, etc and to the HAI box for other variables.

I've had a few Insteon switches with the paddle problems but never noticed because of the automation.

Generally its not been a bad ride with Insteon. I've not had any problems dealing with Smarthome.

I'm just worried that my house will become a large microwave oven someday so leaning a bit towards pure powerline - or maybe its just my age.

 

[Deane Johnson]

Perhaps another consideration might be whether or not you want on the power line or not. If not, Z-Wave would be your choice.

I've gotten so fed up with power line problems with X-10, and I've read about some of the same problems with Insteon and UPB, though certainly not as prevailing, that I don't want anywhere near a power line control system.

 

[az1324]

You may want to also consider the coming Zigbee Pro revolution. Though an isolated lighting subsystem is probably fine, there are advantages to direct communication with other system components without bridges and such.

 

[Steve]

I wasn't interested in UPB or Z-wave since the number of available devices was limited as you said. Three years later, the same thing can be said of UPB and Z-wave. Not much available, what is available is scattered, complicated and kluge.

Unless you have some specific examples I'm not sure I can agree with that statement. Please tell me what you are doing with Insteon that I cannot do with UPB (or Zwave) or my panel (devices I would not want on powerline anyway). And don't include 'look and feel' type stuff that other tech have but you just may like Insteon's better. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy you like Insteon and glad it works for you, I just want to be clear for folks reading this so they don't get wrong impressions.

 

[Digger]

I wasn't interested in UPB or Z-wave since the number of available devices was limited as you said. Three years later, the same thing can be said of UPB and Z-wave. Not much available, what is available is scattered, complicated and kluge.

Unless you have some specific examples I'm not sure I can agree with that statement. Please tell me what you are doing with Insteon that I cannot do with UPB (or Zwave) or my panel (devices I would not want on powerline anyway). And don't include 'look and feel' type stuff that other tech have but you just may like Insteon's better. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy you like Insteon and glad it works for you, I just want to be clear for folks reading this so they don't get wrong impressions.

I replaced all of my Insteon because at the time at least it was complete junk. I use UPB and there is nothing I had before that I cant do now with UPB. I do however like the look of the Insteon Keypad over the UPB's. But it is just the look I liked. Functionally/reliably the UPB is far superior to Insteon. I have not had a defective device and this month will be a year and a half with UPB.

Are the newer Insteon device better than the old? So far it seems they may be. However, we are talking about SH who has a reputation for low quality.

 

[bdee1]

Thanks for all the replies - i didn't notice them until now because even though i subscribed to this thread, I didn't get any email notifications of replies... anyway....

i am still uncertain which way I will go with this. I did have sporadic issues with my old insteon setup. it was all the original gear from a few months after it was releases. I did find that more often then not, the communication issue was between homeseer and the insteon gear rather tan from one insteon device to another. And I hear that there have been great improvements to the homeseer insteon plugin AND to the insteon PC interface. So i am thinking that if I go that route i will not have too many problems anymore. i never really had any issues with the insteon switches themselves - like paddles wearing out or anything like that.

with that said - i am curious about z-wave. I particularly like the idea of using the Schlage locks. that woudl be cool to be able to go to bed at night and press a button on a remote or a keypad or something and have it lock my doors.

I am thinking of getting the z-wave starter kit (here) and see how it works. If I like it i may get more.

I think I am also going to get the dual band PC interface (here) and a couple of dual band lamp modules and see how that works.

one question though - does anyone know if the insteon PC interface - the one i just linked to - can also do x-10 through homeseer? i do have a few old x-10 plug in modules that i hate to see go to waste.

 

[Spot]

one question though - does anyone know if the insteon PC interface - the one i just linked to - can also do x-10 through homeseer? i do have a few old x-10 plug in modules that i hate to see go to waste.

It appears that it can.

From your link:

X10 Features
X10 Controllable Addresses: 256 possible
X10 Powerline Frequency: 120 KHz
X10 Minimum Transmit Level: 3.2 Vpp into 5 ohms
X10 Minimum Receive Level: 20mV into 5 ohms
X10 Messages Repeated: No

 

[BLH]

If you are going to have a large system. One point. The 2412U USB PLM has a 2016 link database. The new 2413U Dual Mesh USB PLM has a 1023 link database.

Folks using an ISY99i. Have to provide a separate external power supply. As the 2413S has no power for external devices on the interface connector like the 2412S one does.