Insteon vs UPB (again)

[sloop]

After following this thread the past few days I feel I need to post my experience with Insteon.

I've been using Insteon with HomeSeer for the past 2 years. I've encountered only two issues, that's right ... 2. The first was with the PLC/SDM combo, it simply did not work well with HomeSeer. Whether it was bad programming by Smarthome or by the HomeSeer plug-in, I don't know. But it just didn't work well.

I then switched over to the PLM. Which brings me to the second issue I had, lockups. This was fixed by Smarthome and they swapped out my PLM without question or cost to me. I have not had a single lockup since!

I have just over 50 Insteon devices in my system. I have not had a single switch, module, or keypad go belly up. I believe others when they say their experience is different, very different. But this is one very happy Insteon user, period!

The HomeSeer plug-in has also come a long way. I can only speak for the PLM version but on my system it is rock solid. All of my lighting is controlled using motion sensors and the BLRadar plug-in. Basically, you walk into a room, it senses motion, the lights come on.

I not interested in a debate or a cat fight over Insteon. I simply wanted to post that not all Insteon users have had the problems that a few users have had (again, I'm not doubting that you did). Remember, most people that don't have a problem, don't post!

I think you hit the nail on the head. There are certainly legitimate complaints to be made against Smarthome. Plenty of people have had issues, but I think most will say that Smarthome has treated them well. Some have stuck with Insteon during the early issues and are happy now, others have moved on to a competing product and are happy now. Some, who may have had legitimate issues, now make negative posts only to further their personal agenda.

That being said, happy users tend to be quiet users.

I've been using Insteon for about 2 years now. Though I haven't had nearly the # of failed devices that some have had, I have had a handful of my earlier switches go bad that Smarthome replaced without complaint (and even paid for return shipping). Any failure is a huge pain, but Smarhome made it as painless as possible.

i assume you are talking about me again - and i am pretty much down on smarthome and their products - and i will remind you again that i have thousands invested in craplincs and zero financial stake in insteon products

why not answer the negative comments instead of dismissing them? this 'negative' poster with a 'personal agenda' has explained why he is down on insteon - my opinion is that it is junk - my 'personal agenda' is to warn others so they won't make the same mistake

when one of my plms went bricklinc on me (because i exceeded the link limit), i could get zero information from smarthome on IF there would be a new plm - rumors and 'hope' were all there was - can you please address why customers that have spent about $10,000 with a company can get no information? then maybe why smarthome would not admit to the 'paddle problem' for years. addressing two complaints is a good start

this 'negative' poster with a 'personal agenda' would like specific complaints addressed from the insteon apologists

could i get you to answer these without claiming victim status because of personal attacks? (though it seems you are personally attacking)

can you please address why customers that have spent about $10,000 with a company can get no information?

then maybe why smarthome would not admit to the 'paddle problem' for years.

i was citing my experience with insteon and asking specific questions - that get ignored

 

[Steve]

sloop: With all due respect, PLEASE JUST DROP IT or take it to PM. Enough is enough!

 

[Event5]

I agree, for those of us who want the added expense and complexity of a panel - that's why the Elk is so great - it communicates with so many different types of hardware. But, for someone who wants a smaller or less complex system, a wider variety of natively supported devices is nice. In my opinion that's why the potential of Zwave is so great - it's intention is to be everywhere.

A nice thing about UPB is a home does not need a controller. Once UPStart is used for programming the devices all know what to do when they hear a signal and just do it. The home with the UPStart sample I shared earlier has been running for 3 years now with no central controller, 120 devices, outside lighting control, gate control and censing, lighting scenes, IR interface with AV Univeral Remote, every room has local scene control.

No call backs for UPB concerns; no computer connected to the system; Only a SA timer/scheduler modual for timed applications including sunset/sunrise.

It was PCS's desire to create a protocal that allowed an installer to do the install and not have to factor into their price, call backs and warrenty work.

Dave

 

[Digger]

I agree, for those of us who want the added expense and complexity of a panel - that's why the Elk is so great - it communicates with so many different types of hardware. But, for someone who wants a smaller or less complex system, a wider variety of natively supported devices is nice. In my opinion that's why the potential of Zwave is so great - it's intention is to be everywhere.

A nice thing about UPB is a home does not need a controller. Once UPStart is used for programming the devices all know what to do when they hear a signal and just do it. The home with the UPStart sample I shared earlier has been running for 3 years now with no central controller, 120 devices. No call backs for lighting concerns; no computer connected to the system; Only a SA timer/scheduler modual for timed applications including sunset/sunrise.

It was PCS's desire to create a protocal that allowed an installer to do the install and not have to factor into their price, call backs and warrenty work.

Dave

Is it easy for the homeowner to make changes to the setup? I like that the ISY allows for easy enough changes but it is not for the average homeowner to make minor changes in my opinion.

 

[MikeB]

A nice thing about UPB is a home does not need a controller. Once UPStart is used for programming the devices all know what to do when they hear a signal and just do it. The home with the UPStart sample I shared earlier has been running for 3 years now with no central controller, 120 devices, outside lighting control, gate control and censing, lighting scenes, IR interface with AV Univeral Remote, every room has local scene control.

You can do all that with Insteon as well. You can link your devices, program scenes, etc. and the switches operate without a central controller.

One of the things I like about UPB, however, is the ADDITIONAL functionality you can program into the devices themselves. There are some things you can do with UPB devices that would require a central controller with Insteon. But you certainly don't need a central controller for links, scenes, ramp rates, on-levels, etc. with Insteon.

That being said, if I had UPB instead of Insteon in my home, I would still need an ISY-like central controller to duplicate everything I do now - so the point is moot for me personally.

 

[Event5]

[/quote]

Is it easy for the homeowner to make changes to the setup? I like that the ISY allows for easy enough changes but it is not for the average homeowner to make minor changes in my opinion.
[/quote]

In this case the owner didn't want to learn how to tweek the system and never learned to use UPStart. Since most of the switches are PCS Pulseworks switches I did try to teach them how to modify dim levels in individual scenes using the little used/know feature in the switches. I don't think they ever used it. I beleive they could have learned to use UPStart, but they had no interest. They just wanted a lighting system that they did not have to think about. That just worked.

Information note
By the way I just received an invite to a Webinar tomorrow, July 2nd from 1pm to 2pm Calif. time. The email implied I could share the invite with friends so here is the link to the registration form. Here


Quote:
This class is designed to introduce and educate you on the BASIC advantages and benefits of UPStart Software that is used to program PulseWorx Residential Lighting Controls. - It's the key that unlocks the power and flexibility of UPB

Create a network, add devices, and adjust the ramp rates of your dimmers, program functions for your keypad controllers, Create Links and much more...

Dave

 

[sloop]

sloop: With all due respect, PLEASE JUST DROP IT or take it to PM. Enough is enough!

sorry - i thought the questions were valid and on topic

 

[Steve]

sloop: With all due respect, PLEASE JUST DROP IT or take it to PM. Enough is enough!

sorry - i thought the questions were valid and on topic

The post would do nothing but draw out more back and forth bantering about Smarthome. You quoted MikeB and asked him to answer questions he cannot. It would only start more personal attacks and defenses. Nobody can can answer those questions except an employee of Smarthome and you know that is not happening on this thread. Yes, absolutely people want to hear your experience and even your opinion, but once it is stated let it be - there is no need for back and forth bickering over differences in opinion, it serves no useful purpose and adds no value to this thread, this forum or the industry. If you want to truly add value, contact Smarthome, gets answers to those questions and post their reply here, THAT would be something that I'm sure people would read with interest, not mine or Mikes or anyone elses guess at what Smarthome may be thinking. Very simple rule - when posting, ask yourself "What will address the OP's question or add value for those reading this later". I'm sure if you read some of your posts, most of them do not fit, especially whatever you were trying to say about the iPhone in an Insteon thread. Nothing personal, just trying to keep it professional.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Very simple rule - when posting, ask yourself "What will address the OP's question or add value for those reading this later".

I nominate this for the CocoonTech "Quote of the Year"!

OOPS... Back on topic. One thing that sort of caught my attention with UPB was some posts that talked about neighbors "houses away" from them being able to control or cause conflict with their UPB devices. I'm thinking a whole house filter should possibly be mandatory, but then remember reading where one was not available. What does one do in this case?

 

[Steve]

One thing that sort of caught my attention with UPB was some posts that talked about neighbors "houses away" from them being able to control or cause conflict with their UPB devices. I'm thinking a whole house filter should possibly be mandatory, but then remember reading where one was not available. What does one do in this case?

It was more of an outside source of noise wreaking havoc with the system. The answer is simple, if you can't eliminate or filter it, use ZWave

 

[Event5]

Very simple rule - when posting, ask yourself "What will address the OP's question or add value for those reading this later".

I nominate this for the CocoonTech "Quote of the Year"!

OOPS... Back on topic. One thing that sort of caught my attention with UPB was some posts that talked about neighbors "houses away" from them being able to control or cause conflict with their UPB devices. I'm thinking a whole house filter should possibly be mandatory, but then remember reading where one was not available. What does one do in this case?

BSR,

The UPB protocal has 250 different network IDs. On the highly unlikely event that 2 houses near each other have the same network ID. One would just have to change to another ID

 

[sloop]

sloop: With all due respect, PLEASE JUST DROP IT or take it to PM. Enough is enough!

sorry - i thought the questions were valid and on topic

The post would do nothing but draw out more back and forth bantering about Smarthome. You quoted MikeB and asked him to answer questions he cannot. It would only start more personal attacks and defenses. Nobody can can answer those questions except an employee of Smarthome and you know that is not happening on this thread. Yes, absolutely people want to hear your experience and even your opinion, but once it is stated let it be - there is no need for back and forth bickering over differences in opinion, it serves no useful purpose and adds no value to this thread, this forum or the industry. If you want to truly add value, contact Smarthome, gets answers to those questions and post their reply here, THAT would be something that I'm sure people would read with interest, not mine or Mikes or anyone elses guess at what Smarthome may be thinking. Very simple rule - when posting, ask yourself "What will address the OP's question or add value for those reading this later". I'm sure if you read some of your posts, most of them do not fit, especially whatever you were trying to say about the iPhone in an Insteon thread. Nothing personal, just trying to keep it professional.

i have asked smarthome - as i pointed out, they will not answer - when the embarrassing questions for smarthome became intense, they implemented a new 'company ploicy' that said they would provide no comments - sometimes people say they have inside info though - and i thought the OP should know that when making his decision - that was my ratio decidendi

i thought it was interesting that you chose my post to jump on - after having our motives questioned (mine was clearly stated), saying anyone that is not excited about insteon is 'negative' and has a 'personal agenda' - not sure how that added value - but you chose my post to question - i am not sure where i stared making personal attacks - but if i did, it was probably after that

my post about the phones was off topic - someone made an effort to defuse the tension and i joined in with my post (which was not the first or only post attempting to calm the tension) - i understand that every post MUST be strictly on topic now - but will leave it to others to monitor them

 

[Digger]

sloop: With all due respect, PLEASE JUST DROP IT or take it to PM. Enough is enough!

sorry - i thought the questions were valid and on topic

The post would do nothing but draw out more back and forth bantering about Smarthome. You quoted MikeB and asked him to answer questions he cannot. It would only start more personal attacks and defenses. Nobody can can answer those questions except an employee of Smarthome and you know that is not happening on this thread. Yes, absolutely people want to hear your experience and even your opinion, but once it is stated let it be - there is no need for back and forth bickering over differences in opinion, it serves no useful purpose and adds no value to this thread, this forum or the industry. If you want to truly add value, contact Smarthome, gets answers to those questions and post their reply here, THAT would be something that I'm sure people would read with interest, not mine or Mikes or anyone elses guess at what Smarthome may be thinking. Very simple rule - when posting, ask yourself "What will address the OP's question or add value for those reading this later". I'm sure if you read some of your posts, most of them do not fit, especially whatever you were trying to say about the iPhone in an Insteon thread. Nothing personal, just trying to keep it professional.

i have asked smarthome - as i pointed out, they will not answer - when the embarrassing questions for smarthome became intense, they implemented a new 'company ploicy' that said they would provide no comments - sometimes people say they have inside info though - and i thought the OP should know that when making his decision - that was my ratio decidendi

i thought it was interesting that you chose my post to jump on - after having our motives questioned (mine was clearly stated), saying anyone that is not excited about insteon is 'negative' and has a 'personal agenda' - not sure how that added value - but you chose my post to question - i am not sure where i stared making personal attacks - but if i did, it was probably after that

my post about the phones was off topic - someone made an effort to defuse the tension and i joined in with my post (which was not the first or only post attempting to calm the tension) - i understand that every post MUST be strictly on topic now - but will leave it to others to monitor them

Sloop we all know someone here gets kicks out of stirring the pot since he knows we both lost our shirts with SH. Dont play his game. He has our email address's and will take it there next because he wants to come off as the good guy, Let it go and ignore his emails if he starts that again and he will give up over time.

Back on topic I beleive the original poster is going UPB based on his own research and some helpful people in this thread. I actually wanted to thank those people who helped him since I had originaly told him to use Insteon before he was even a cocooner which turned out to be a mistake. Thankfully he never installed them and I beleive he is returning them and buying UPB elsewhere. This thread gave him the information he needed to make the right choice.

I still hope UDI comes out with an ISY for UPB shortly as I think that would be an awesome compliment of products.

 

[electron]

I am a little disappointed that I am forced to close this thread, but this thread is not getting better, and only seems to upset people now.

This thread is now locked.

If you wish to truly discuss and compare these technologies in a CIVIL manner, feel free to start a new thread (the valuable posts in this thread are just too hard to find now), but this can not happen again.