Insteon vs UPB (again)

[123]

Please don't stop! I have not grown bored of these Insteon vs. UPB vs. zWAVE potboilers!

The storyline is predictable but still a crowd-pleaser! Four pages into the thread and things are finally getting personal. Now for the big fight scene ... unless it's squelched by a deus ex machina ... where the Admin steps in and imposes a hasty and unsatisfying conclusion.



Another summer, another 'protocol laden' blockbuster! Over 850 views and counting!

 

[MikeB]

Please don't stop! I have not grown bored of these Insteon vs. UPB vs. zWAVE potboilers!

LOL, the mechanics might not be old but the topics surely are.

Maybe we can switch? I miss the good old days:

RX-7 vs 300ZX vs Supra
Amiga vs Mac vs PC

What's hip nowadays??

 

[damage]

Please don't stop! I have not grown bored of these Insteon vs. UPB vs. zWAVE potboilers!

LOL, the mechanics might not be old but the topics surely are.

Maybe we can switch? I miss the good old days:

RX-7 vs 300ZX vs Supra
Amiga vs Mac vs PC

What's hip nowadays??

prius rules vs. prius sucks???

 

[MikeB]

prius rules vs. prius sucks??? tongue.gif

Well, that's an easy one...

 

[Steve]

Please don't stop! I have not grown bored of these Insteon vs. UPB vs. zWAVE potboilers!

The storyline is predictable but still a crowd-pleaser! Four pages into the thread and things are finally getting personal. Now for the big fight scene ... unless it's squelched by a deus ex machina ... where the Admin steps in and imposes a hasty and unsatisfying conclusion.



Another summer, another 'protocol laden' blockbuster! Over 850 views and counting!

I'm sorry, I don't agree. If you want entertainment, there are plenty of places for that. I spend ALOT of time here on CocoonTech, both learning and trying to help and threads like this are a complete WASTE of my time. I spent a good few minutes posting about difference in UPB devices here. How many people do you think will even see that - people see the dang bickering and just move on. I seriously spend enough time trying to read all posts on this forum and I just am sick and tired of wasting my time on this constant arguing.

This is America and everyone has their own opinions and that is GOOD. It is good for people to express their own opinions and feelings based on their experiences. But when those opinions start getting smashed back and forth it does a disservice to everyone. People for years will come here and do searches and hit threads like this and say jeez, another 5 page thread with maybe 1 or 2 pages of real info.

So, PLEASE let's all just respect each other and their opinions and leave it at that - no need to get defensive and start thread crapping.

If entertainment is what is desired then maybe the mods can create a new forum with a virtual Grudge Match thread and lock some people in it and let them type away insulting each other until their fingertips are raw, but for petes sake lets please keep informative threads just that way, informative and helpful. I enjoy humor as much as anyone, but sorry, this just ain't funny.

 

[MikeB]

I'm sorry, I don't agree.

Point taken. I don't feel I blew the topic out of proportion, and I certainly didn't bring it to a personal level.

 

[sloop]

as i understand it, you can't replace the battery in the i/phone - you have to take it to apple

it has no built it gps receiver

more apps are available for wm based devices

no removable storage

worst of all - its gsm

no powerline interface but its tact switches seem reliable

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Please don't stop! I have not grown bored of these Insteon vs. UPB vs. zWAVE potboilers!

The storyline is predictable but still a crowd-pleaser! Four pages into the thread and things are finally getting personal. Now for the big fight scene ... unless it's squelched by a deus ex machina ... where the Admin steps in and imposes a hasty and unsatisfying conclusion.



Another summer, another 'protocol laden' blockbuster! Over 850 views and counting!

I'm sorry, I don't agree. If you want entertainment, there are plenty of places for that. I spend ALOT of time here on CocoonTech, both learning and trying to help and threads like this are a complete WASTE of my time. I spent a good few minutes posting about difference in UPB devices here. How many people do you think will even see that - people see the dang bickering and just move on. I seriously spend enough time trying to read all posts on this forum and I just am sick and tired of wasting my time on this constant arguing.

This is America and everyone has their own opinions and that is GOOD. It is good for people to express their own opinions and feelings based on their experiences. But when those opinions start getting smashed back and forth it does a disservice to everyone. People for years will come here and do searches and hit threads like this and say jeez, another 5 page thread with maybe 1 or 2 pages of real info.

So, PLEASE let's all just respect each other and their opinions and leave it at that - no need to get defensive and start thread crapping.

If entertainment is what is desired then maybe the mods can create a new forum with a virtual Grudge Match thread and lock some people in it and let them type away insulting each other until their fingertips are raw, but for petes sake lets please keep informative threads just that way, informative and helpful. I enjoy humor as much as anyone, but sorry, this just ain't funny.

+1! It's not very logical having entertainment in here. Like MikeB, I'm also a happy Insteon user.

I'm sorry, I don't agree.

Point taken. I don't feel I blew the topic out of proportion, and I certainly didn't bring it to a personal level.

I don't think you did, either.

And to others, let me just say that you shouldn't give happy SmartHome customers a hard time to move away from Insteon. Threads like this just wastes original poster's time.

To original poster:

Like I mentioned above, I'm a happy Insteon customer of SmartHome, and I like the products that SmartLabs offers (SmartLabs is a parent company of SmartHome). I like the fact that it is dual-mesh (AccessPoint, for example, which uses powerline and RF technology) and it transmits very fast, like at 50 milliseconds (it will repeat up to four times before the other responder can receive). What I like about the plug-in modules I'm using is it feels less boxy and that it has an always-on outlet on which you can plug any devices you wish to use (except AccessPoint). What I like about SmartHome is that SmartHome improved products over the years, so if you haven't invested in Insteon yet, you can buy Insteon devices from SmartHome without failed paddles from SwitchLincs and with no lockups from PowerLine Modem (PLM) controller.

As for UPB, it's also a good technology with Generation II, which seems to have improved over the years, although I don't have UPB due to my low income (I'm a student at Tallahassee Community College). There are several choices of manufacturers out there that support UPB (I'll suggest Web Mountain or Home Automation, Inc. for Generation II devices). UPB is a powerline-only technology, unlike Insteon, which is dual-mesh (again, not all Insteon devices are dual-mesh but there may be more devices that will have RF technology, whether they use powerline or not).

I hope I can be of help.

 

[electron]

I noticed some of these posts here are starting to get off-topic, can we please keep this civilized AND stick to the original topic. I really don't want to start babysitting this thread. Thank you.

 

[wuench]

Amiga vs Mac vs PC

Amiga wins hands down. So any chance I can get my old Amiga 1000 to run Insteon? What about my Dad's old Osborne he refuses to throw out?

 

[drozwood90]

Dam now you have me seriously considering dumping nearly $4000 in Insteon and going UPB. I hate the weak signal strength of the Insteon and the repeating of the signals.

Sorry! But it is for the better! Just like when someone has to get their nose re-broke to set it correct. It'll hurt, but it's WAY better. Ever since I switched I have had 1 issue with ANYTHING related to the UPB. I was going crazy with X10 and Insteon stuff. As soon as I switched...everything just works. Just works....

So, does UPB cost more...sure... but how much is your time worth? Figure out how much time you spend fixing everything in your setup. Now, when I want to put something in temporarily...I can pop in one of my cheap X10 appliance modules. Generally works well enough for anything that I use temporarily. Such as X-Mas lights. When I do use something like that, I just have Homeseer send on or off 3 times in a row, then 1 minute later send it 3 more times. This makes sure it's off or on. The other great thing, is UPB can co-exist with X10 WITHOUT any special things. I found the more Insteon stuff I added, the lower my X10 signals were and the fewer X10 devices worked. With UPB, it's like having 2 separate networks! The UPB one that works, and the 1-2 X10 devices that I put in here and there for temporary things. Of course X10 works perfect so long as there < 5 devices.

Without any couplers, I'm getting a "worst" case UPB signal of 21 (I think it's out of 30?? Can anyone verify this?). I expect as soon as I put in the UPB coupler I have (which passes X10 signals!!) I'll have perfect-railed out signal strength everywhere!

--Dan

 

[MikeB]

Amiga wins hands down. So any chance I can get my old Amiga 1000 to run Insteon?

Check with these guys:
http://www.forefronttechnologiesinc.com/

They're an Amiga shop currently working on an Insteon software package:
http://www.forefronttechnologiesinc.com/forums/

 

[Steve]

Dam now you have me seriously considering dumping nearly $4000 in Insteon and going UPB. I hate the weak signal strength of the Insteon and the repeating of the signals.

Without any couplers, I'm getting a "worst" case UPB signal of 21 (I think it's out of 30?? Can anyone verify this?). I expect as soon as I put in the UPB coupler I have (which passes X10 signals!!) I'll have perfect-railed out signal strength everywhere!
--Dan

Well, don't be misled by signal strength either. I think it actually goes to 100 but as I think Dave has mentioned before as well too, anything over 9 or 10 should be pretty darn reliable. So, whether the signal is 25 or 65 should not really matter that much. But I think its kinda like digital tv, a higher signal strength doesn't make it work better under normal conditions, but it should be more immune to issues - so instead of atmospheric conditions causing pixelation, a higher signal may help out in overcoming some noise, etc.

And I would like to add my $.02 on the topic of RF. It has been stated often that one of UPB's 'weaknesses' in no RF. Even tho PCS, etc. may be trying to do some of that, I am of the opinion that if you want RF build a hybrid system. Most panels and software these days support multiple technologies. As an example, I chose UPB as my primary protocol for lighting. If I for some reason wanted other RF/wireless devices like a t-stat, I would most likely supplement my system with Z-Wave. Each technology/protocol is going to have strengths and weaknesses, nothing is good at everything. So since its so easy to combine multiple technologies in a still nice neat hybrid system, why not choose the best of the best for what each does - so say UPB for lighting and ZWave (or other similar) for wireless/RF if needed. I certainly would not get crazy and base a decision on a primary/mission critical component like lighting on whether the system tried to solve world hunger and I could get wireless thermostats to go with my PLC lighting.

 

[Digger]

Dam now you have me seriously considering dumping nearly $4000 in Insteon and going UPB. I hate the weak signal strength of the Insteon and the repeating of the signals.

Without any couplers, I'm getting a "worst" case UPB signal of 21 (I think it's out of 30?? Can anyone verify this?). I expect as soon as I put in the UPB coupler I have (which passes X10 signals!!) I'll have perfect-railed out signal strength everywhere!
--Dan

Well, don't be misled by signal strength either. I think it actually goes to 100 but as I think Dave has mentioned before as well too, anything over 9 or 10 should be pretty darn reliable. So, whether the signal is 25 or 65 should not really matter that much. But I think its kinda like digital tv, a higher signal strength doesn't make it work better under normal conditions, but it should be more immune to issues - so instead of atmospheric conditions causing pixelation, a higher signal may help out in overcoming some noise, etc.

And I would like to add my $.02 on the topic of RF. It has been stated often that one of UPB's 'weaknesses' in no RF. Even tho PCS, etc. may be trying to do some of that, I am of the opinion that if you want RF build a hybrid system. Most panels and software these days support multiple technologies. As an example, I chose UPB as my primary protocol for lighting. If I for some reason wanted other RF/wireless devices like a t-stat, I would most likely supplement my system with Z-Wave. Each technology/protocol is going to have strengths and weaknesses, nothing is good at everything. So since its so easy to combine multiple technologies in a still nice neat hybrid system, why not choose the best of the best for what each does - so say UPB for lighting and ZWave (or other similar) for wireless/RF if needed. I certainly would not get crazy and base a decision on a primary/mission critical component like lighting on whether the system tried to solve world hunger and I could get wireless thermostats to go with my PLC lighting.

I think that a 40 V signal will get further on its own then a 3.5 V signal. So if you have 100 feet between devices a 3.5 V signal may get lost but a 40 V signal should make it there. You should not need a device inbetween to make up for the low signal strength of the devices (this is why SH tells people to buy more to make the mesh stronger which makes sense).

Its like someone talking in a large room filled with people. The people in the back cant hear unless someone repeats the message (and its like playing telephone the message can be corrupted also). If the person speaking has a PA system to make their voice louder then there is no need to repeat.

A lot of it comes down to how many times people with UPB had to swap out their devices for hardware or firmware problems in the past 2 years compared to insteon devices? I have not heard of people having to swap out UPB devices for these issues but I am sure somebody had to occasionally. Or am I mistaken and nobody here did. If you read teh forums there are still people complaining that the keypadlinc firmware issues exist (lockups, basic function bugs fixed) but SH is not exchanging for those people even though they said in at least one of those two situation they would.

Why would people want to get mixed up in that if UPB does not have those issues?

I have said it before and I will say it again that SH is improving but they are still apparently not correcting the problems for a lot of people. I told David to go with Insteon from day 1 as I felt he would be ok and that was a big mistake on my part and now he is screwed because I did. My agenda was to help him before this thread even started and before he was a cocooner.

 

[MikeB]

And I would like to add my $.02 on the topic of RF. It has been stated often that one of UPB's 'weaknesses' in no RF. Even tho PCS, etc. may be trying to do some of that, I am of the opinion that if you want RF build a hybrid system. Most panels and software these days support multiple technologies. As an example, I chose UPB as my primary protocol for lighting. If I for some reason wanted other RF/wireless devices like a t-stat, I would most likely supplement my system with Z-Wave. Each technology/protocol is going to have strengths and weaknesses, nothing is good at everything. So since its so easy to combine multiple technologies in a still nice neat hybrid system, why not choose the best of the best for what each does - so say UPB for lighting and ZWave (or other similar) for wireless/RF if needed. I certainly would not get crazy and base a decision on a primary/mission critical component like lighting on whether the system tried to solve world hunger and I could get wireless thermostats to go with my PLC lighting.

I agree, for those of us who want the added expense and complexity of a panel - that's why the Elk is so great - it communicates with so many different types of hardware. But, for someone who wants a smaller or less complex system, a wider variety of natively supported devices is nice. In my opinion that's why the potential of Zwave is so great - it's intention is to be everywhere.