Premise Is Home Premise a Good Choice?

[Mike_2008]

I am in the planning stages of setting up a home theater (no equipment selected) and was originally thinking about using a simple IR repeater and a good universal remote to control the equipment, lights and a motorized shades. That changed when the motorized shade I was considering using uses a RS232 serial interface for control. This got me looking at control in general and whole system integration and the use of RS232 for other A/V equipment. From an automation perspective, it seems like RS232 is the way to go if the device supports this type of communication. More work to implement, but a lot more control. My goal is to use a good universal remote to control equipment, shades and lights.

This got me looking at Home Premise and I have since watched 4 of the videos. The software is very powerful and looks like it is more than capable of doing what I need and it got me thinking about stuff I never even thought was possible. I have some questions and would appreciate any feedback.

- What is the hardware needed for setup?
I was considering using an old PC with a serial port extender to expand the one RS232 port to 4 or 6. Since I would be using a universal remote, I was looking at the USB-UIRT device (I see a device driver is available in the download section) to interface with Home Premise and a good universal remote. The remote would have line of sight to the USB-UIRT device. It looks like the USB-UIRT comes with one IR emitter. If I needed to control 4 IR devices, would I need multiple USB-UIRT devices? If not, how would I control multiple devices?

I was not planning on running the PC on a network, but this may change as I know this defeats some of the cool home automation options. Would my hardware setup work?

- What software is needed?
Can I just use the Home Premise software running on XP.


- How difficult is it program?
I am fairly experienced in writing VB script and fully understood the intro to programming video and concepts. It looks like nothing will run out of the box for your devices. When I looked into Girder, it requires you to program all your devices in Lua which is something I know nothing about and would require a learning curve to program. This further attracted me to Home Premise.

- Anything else I should consider?
Obviously the software is not supported, but it does look like the user group here is loyal and very supportive in trying to help. Does anyone see this forum going away? Does anyone know how many users of Home Premise there are?

- Any other solutions anyone would recommend or HA software?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[etc6849]

Welcome to the forum! I don't use the UIRT, but if there is only one IR output port, you can always get an Xantech IR hub to expand this one port to multiple ports (even 10).

A lot of us use the Global Cache networked based controller (GC-100). It provides networked based IR outputs and rs232 connections so your Premise server could be in a different room! If you use a usb UIRT, it sounds like you'd have to have the PC in the same room or very close to it. I use a Xantech IR receiver connected to a GC-IRE (Global Cache IR rs232 receiver) via a special Xantech to Global Cache cable. I also use a Xantech 10 port hub to expand the number of IR output ports of the GC-100, but again this requires a special Global Cache to Xantech cable.

If you use flourescent lighting or an LCD with CFL, I would make sure whatever receiver you get will filter CFL. Same goes for a plasma.

- What is the hardware needed for setup?
I was considering using an old PC with a serial port extender to expand the one RS232 port to 4 or 6. Since I would be using a universal remote, I was looking at the USB-UIRT device (I see a device driver is available in the download section) to interface with Home Premise and a good universal remote. The remote would have line of sight to the USB-UIRT device. It looks like the USB-UIRT comes with one IR emitter. If I needed to control 4 IR devices, would I need multiple USB-UIRT devices? If not, how would I control multiple devices?

Yes, any XP machine will work fine. Even an old laptop. I would definitely consider networking the PC though so you can modify Premise remotely, use the automation browser etc...

- What software is needed?
Can I just use the Home Premise software running on XP.

Premise Builder is easy to learn, especially if you have programmed in vbscript. I would download a few of the modules posted here and study them. I had little or no experience at vbscript, but learned from posts on here, reading online and looking at modules that are posted. I was able to build rs232 modules for everything I own.

- How difficult is it program?

I've only been playing with home automation for a year or less and Premise was/is my first program. However, many of the people on this forum have used Premise for a many years. In addition, I don't think it will go away cause it's free and very powerful.

- Anything else I should consider?
Obviously the software is not supported, but it does look like the user group here is loyal and very supportive in trying to help. Does anyone see this forum going away? Does anyone know how many users of Home Premise there are?

 

[chucklyons]

yes, etc6849 is right on - but don't think Premise doesn't work straight out off the box. It supports (I'm sure you've seen some of these) right out of the box. Given you're in the first stages, you might think of making some HW choices to make life easier. Out of the box you'll get support for the GC-100 (~$100); Aprilaire (~$250); Lutron (~$75+);Xantech, and computer audio, and many more; not to forget the number of free modules here. You can buy a cheap touchpad on eBay (123 uses Aubreys!) for far less than a remote. Buy a GC-100 and do some IR learnin' and you're off to the races. (I have never understood why folks would pay 300, 400, or more for IR remotes that are fairly limited in capabilities compared to Premise)

I've used it since around 2001 (after my dot-com went dot-bomb), so that should tell you it runs on some cheesy HW.

Welcome to the cult!

 

[samgreco]

When I first installed Premise, I had a Xantech ZPR68-10 for multizone audio, a bunch of UPB switches, and AM/FM tuner and a Global Cahce GC-100 for IR. I had multizone audio working in less than 15 minutes. I kid you not.

I then had basic lighting control working (for the supported devices) in another 30 minutes. I had to modify the UPB driver to get it to recognize some devices since they were manufactured long after the driver was written. So that took a while, since I don't really program.

So much of Premise functionality is drag and drop in the Builder. And since you know VB Script, you should be able to extend it as much as you need. And as 123 stated in another thread, the core of Premise seems to be amazingly stable, so it should remain viable fora long time to come.

And if this forum were to go away (I can't even imagine that) someone (I know I would be willing) would start up another forum.

 

[123]

FWIW, the USB-UIRT consists of one IR receiver, and three IR transmitter channels. One channel operates via a built-in IR transmitter. The other two channels are accessible via a mini-stereo jack on the device that allows you to connect two external IR transmitters (that can be located some distance away from the USB-UIRT). I wrote the Premise USB-UIRT driver and it can transmit via each of the three channels (Left, Right, Center, and All channels).

 

[Mike_2008]

Home Premise looks like it would be a great solution for what I need and I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses.

What would you recommend for a remote? Originally, I thought of a good universal remote, but would love to hear what others are using. Someone mentioned a touch screen......

While I originally thought of using a PC, the Global Cache looks like it would be another option. Please confirm what is needed to make the Global Cache solution work. I am thinking the following:

- Global Cache Unit
- Some type of RS232 extender if you need more than 2 connections
- Some type of IR extender if you need more the 6 (probably unlikely)
- IR receiver

Sounds like I would spend $400+ to get this solution up and running. I would probably opt to spend the money on a HTPC and use USB-UIRT for IR control. Does this make sense?

While 123 indicated that UIRT comes with 2 IR outputs, I would probably need to expand. Would this just be an IR extender? With an extender, can you send unique IR commands to each IR sensor?

Thanks Again

 

[etc6849]

There's nothing wrong with the USB-UIRT, it sounds like a great option for you if you are new and you have your PC near the front of the room already. I didn't spend much initially (only $120 GC100), but added more as I went. The reason I didn't buy a UIRT is my ultimate plan was to put everything in a rack that's 25-30 feet away from the front of my room.

For the IR extender, is this what you mean?:
http://www.smarthome.com/8193/Xantech-Ampl...k-791-44/p.aspx

However, if you have a UIRT, can you make a cable that goes from it directly into the 791-44? I don't know since I have no experience with the UIRT... For the GC-100, there are special GCX and GXC cables for interfacing back and forth to/from Xantech. These special cables are optically isolated so they never cause a ground loop (ie all blinkies don't slowly go to red and stay there). I actually had a ground loop on mine when I tried making my own cables without optical isolation. If you have electronics experience, you can make your own. You could also try using the corresponding GC to Xantech cable. I would post this question under the hardware thread if 123 hasn't used an IR hub with the UIRT.

Other Remote Options
This is what I do for a primary RF remote (in addition to IR remotes)
ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ur81-om.pdf

I use it with the X10 MR26a rs232 (not the USB model). To find the MR26a, I would set a search on ebay to alert you when one comes up. Just make sure it's the RS232 version as this is supported under Premise natively.

The X10 remotes work good as they allow three control states for each button: hold, press and release. This means the play button can play (on press) or turn the light off (on hold).

I also do this with any IR remote I want
If you go with the UIRT (or GC-IRE), an option would be to use the IR remote keypad driver on here in combination with ANY old IR remote. You would learn each IR code for the buttons under devices, then create a keypad under home and write code for the button press. Obviously, the IR signals on the remote must be dissimilar enough from those of your current remotes or your components may react to the IR signal alone.

For example, pause might send pause to the current source and brighten the lights.

...
- Global Cache Unit
- Some type of RS232 extender if you need more than 2 connections
- Some type of IR extender if you need more the 6 (probably unlikely)
- IR receiver
...
While 123 indicated that UIRT comes with 2 IR outputs, I would probably need to expand. Would this just be an IR extender? With an extender, can you send unique IR commands to each IR sensor?

 

[Mike_2008]

Thanks ETC6849....I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. I am still trying to understand all the peaces on a Home Premise setup. I certainly think the Global Cache is a great option, but was thinking if I go the HTPC route it would make more sense to spend the dollars on the PC as the HT equipment (including the HTPC) would be in the same room. I am certainly learning and it is great to have options.

It was very nice for 123 to create the driver for the UIRT and open this up as an option.

Thanks