ISY-99 Not Linking All Devices

altsarc

New Member
Can someone walk me through linking devices to the ISY-99? Through much trial and error, I've managed to hand-feed it all my devices but two.

I've got triggers, switches and keypads. In the isy-99, auto linking never works for me when it came to the keypads or switches, nor when I input them manually. So, I linked those guys to the triggerlincs as their controller and then added the trigger thru ISY-99 manually. It adds the trigger, one switch, and that's it. Nothing else populates the lefthand list. However, when I check the link table and isy table under the trigger, I find the addresses for all the switches and keypads.

So, what exactly am I doing wrong? It seems to see the trigger's links to all my devices and it even added one of them fine, but why is it ignoring the remaining keypad and switch?

Extra question: I noticed that none of the keypads or switches would even attempt to show up in the isy-99 until I linked them to an access point. Why is that? Isn't the access point mainly for RF devices, not hardwired ones?
 
First thing I would do it to set up an account at universal devices forum and read up. If you are not familiar with the universal devices wiki, then you have more reading to do.

Next...make sure you have the latest software in your ISY (version 3.3.9, I believe). There are a lot of new devices being added to the insteon line, and software updates are often needed for the ISY to recognize them.

To link, the easiest wasy for me is to simply select the "start linking" button on the admin console, then putting the responder device in linking mode. The responder device will flash and beep when successful. It will also show up as a new devive in the ISY admin console.

Finally, there is no such thing as linking switches to access points. You should have two access points, one on each leg of your electrical system. You should follow the included directions to confirm this. Access points are, by the way, both RF and powerline communication.
 
Thanks for the help. Signed up with the forum and reading through as much as possible, but now have gotten sidetracked with the upgrade.

Upgrading is proving to be oddly difficult as it keeps giving me socket open failed errors, and each time I restart the update it gives me the error at different times. Imagine my dismay when it reached 93% before crapping out. Any tips I read about this seem to indicate issues with firewall, but I disabled that for the time being.. java is up to date and cache is cleared.. so not sure what's left to do.
 
This may also be affect by what version you are upgrading FROM. I recall issues with upgrades from some versions to newer version when there was a large gap. Regardless, the ISY forum would be the place to seek support.
 
Don't upgarde until you run into something you can't do without it. I have been monitoring the RC's and the latest ones were not ready for prime-time yet.
 
Don't upgarde until you run into something you can't do without it.

Such as the inability to recognize certain insteon devices, as initially posted?

For the record, I have NEVER had a problem with ANY version of ISY software. I am currently running 3.3.8 without problems.
 
First, if you're running 3.3.8 then you don't need to upgrade to recognize any of those three items. I assume by Trigger you refer to the open/close switch p/n 2843-222, that's the new part number for the old Triggerlinc p/n 2421. All three - the switch, the dimmers and the keypads work fine for me and I'm at 3.3.8. That was the latest version until this past Monday, and 3.3.9 includes very minor bug fixes.

Second, how are you accessing the ISY? If you're using the Java applet, then you need to make sure it's software rev matches the firmware on your ISY. From the task list on the top bar of your admin console, select "Help" --> "About" and a dialog pops up that shows your current ISY rev and UI rev. If these don't match you're in for problems.

Third, are you connecting your PC via secure http? I've had all sorts of pain using the non-secure http port. Make sure you use the address https:(IP address) for access. If you are using the Java applet, then the "finder" that pops up when you first start the app will automatically find the non-secure port - you need to use the add button to include the secure port in the list. Select the https: port every time you start up the app.

Next question, are all of your keypads and switches/dimmers dual band or are they all powerline only? I'm trying to figure out how robust your RF network is. I should point out that if you have all dual band devices (except, of course, the triggers which are RF only). There's really very little need for access points. Main reason for access points is for the PLM communications to bridge phases - a good number of installed dual band devices will do that anyway.

So ... once we've established some answers to my above questions, I see your struggle as two separate problems.

1) Why won't the wired devices (keypads, switches, dimmers) come into the ISY using the auto-linking process?
2) Why won't the open/close triggers link into the ISY without linking to another device?

The answer to #1 is likely to be found in either one of the setup questions above, or it is procedural. The steps are pretty simple. With the ISY admin console up and running (using secure port, correct Java console rev), you simple select "Link Management" --> "Start Linking". A dialog pops up that gives you three choices. I strongly recommend choosing the default (remove existing links). This will clear out all links existing in any devices you add. (more on that later). Then you walk over to whatever device you want to link and push and hold the little "set" button just below the switch, until you hear it beep (about 3 seconds). As long as the new device has a communication path to the ISY, it will appear in a list that builds up at the bottom of the linking dialog on the admin console. You'll just see the Insteon address, but later you get the chance to rename it. You can add as many devices as you want, but keep in mind you need to keep track of the addresses so you can name them and do the setup correctly. When this is all done, just hit the "finish" button and you're on your way.

For the open/close - well, I've never managed to get the ISY to find these devices using the auto linking tool. I did struggle a bit getting the first one to work but using the manual add - "Link Management" --> "Add new Insteon Device" - works every time. However, with this method, you have to enter the Insteon address manually, along with the name you wish to use and the Device Type. I've had no success using auto discover to get the ISY to find the device type, so I just use the drop-down menu and select the correct type. Works like a charm. Of course, this switch is RF only, so it won't work if you're not in range of another Insteon wireless or dual-band device.


Now, getting to that "remove existing links" selection. I recommend you avoid setting up ANY links in Insteon devices other than through the ISY. If you manually link devices using the set buttons or some other method outside of the ISY, then the ISY will have no knowledge of these links and unpredictable things can happen. If you do the linking via ISY, it sends the link to the device(s) and keeps a record of that link in its own database. Once the actual device links and the ISY database mismatch, commands can be sent from a controller and the ISY may not track it. Hence, the recommendation when first linking to the ISY to remove existing links. If you are adding a device that was previously used in another location, old links could be residing in the device's table and that will eventually mess you up!!
 
You are so absolutely right KenN. In my zeal to play with these new toys, I started linking devices manually without the use of the ISY.. rookie mistake, I know. But once I unlinked everyone, reset them back to factory default, auto link worked like a charm. Okay, maybe a flawed charm since I had to move around my access points quite a bit before everyone was recognized.

To answer your question, my switchlincs and keypadlincs are not dual band as far as i can tell. I do have dual band lamplincs but havent tried installing them yet. So they would serve as access points as well?

Oh and as for upgrading, I finally managed to do that by accessing through the admin on a wired computer.. big mistake trying to do that on a wireless laptop.

Showed off to my wife last night by playing with the lights from my computer... worth the days of confusion and research and beseeching for grace from the higher powers!

One thing though.. my triggerlincs are just too finicky. Sometimes they'll link up fine and work once or twice.. but then I'll leave them for a while, try to connect to them and I get the lost communication error and that shiny red exclamation point next to them. Not sure what's the issue though.. one is really close and in line of sight to an access point, and the other isn't line of sight but still near it. So that's my latest challenge so far.
 
3.3.10 was released this morning.
I would wait until UDI corrects the link to the 3.310 admin.jnp file. It still points to 3.3.9 and you will get a UI of 3.3.9 and Firmware of 3.310.
 
To answer your question, my switchlincs and keypadlincs are not dual band as far as i can tell. I do have dual band lamplincs but havent tried installing them yet. So they would serve as access points as well?

As far as I know, any dual-band device can act as an access point and as long as there are two dual band devices on opposite phases, within RF range of each other, then you should not need any access points. I have no access points in my system, but all of my switches and keypads are dual band. And it's definitely all working fine and bridging phases perfectly well.

What are the model #s of your switches/keypads? If your gear is new, then it might be dual band as they've pretty much dropped the powerline only versions from sale. If older then yes, could be PL only.

One thing though.. my triggerlincs are just too finicky. Sometimes they'll link up fine and work once or twice.. but then I'll leave them for a while, try to connect to them and I get the lost communication error and that shiny red exclamation point next to them. Not sure what's the issue though.. one is really close and in line of sight to an access point, and the other isn't line of sight but still near it. So that's my latest challenge so far.

Not sure on this, but if in fact you have very few dual band devices, it *might* be having trouble routing the messages? I know that Insteon limits the number of "hops" that a message can take from source to destination - I'm mostly guessing here! If you do have some dual band devices to spare, you might try installing them in places that are physically in the path from the source O/C switch to the destination device ... temporarily, just as an experiment. If reliability improves then we have an answer.


BLH ... I checked the UD forum just now, looks like they fixed up their link to 3.3.10 admin console about 20 minutes after your post above!
 
To answer your question, my switchlincs and keypadlincs are not dual band as far as i can tell
2477 models are dual band, 2476 are not. SH doesn't sell 2476's anymore, so unless you bought them a while ago or picked them up on ebay or something, they are dual band. ISY lists the model number on the "main" page. If you bought old used devices I hope they are not too old, as Insteon switches prior to about 4 years ago were all defective.

As far as I know, any dual-band device can act as an access point and as long as there are two dual band devices on opposite phases, within RF range of each other
That is correct

I know that Insteon limits the number of "hops" that a message can take from source to destination - I'm mostly guessing here!
Yes, that is correct. It is limited to 3. When a device receives a message, it appends it when it repeats so the next device knows how many times it has already been repeated.

For the record, I have NEVER had a problem with ANY version of ISY software.
Well, never a major problem. Many have had minor bugs that have directly affected me and from word of others, far more have had issues that did not affect me personally. If you aren't using the more esoteric features of ISY, I don't think you will find any of them to have issues.
 
I bought them at least a couple of years ago and just checked: they're 2476, so not dual-band. I'll test out with the lamplincs and see if they improve the signal.

I'll admit, I'm a little hesitant to do that since the system has been working for most of the day and last time I added a lamplinc things went screwy and lost connection to most of the devices. I can't imagine there would be a correlation there, and maybe it was something else I did at the same time, but hesitant nonetheless.

Beginner question regarding phases and access point devices: when I'm adding the lamplincs in the path between switch and trigger to test improvement, do I need to make sure they're only placed in different phases? If they're on the same phase, are they still helping to carry over the RF signal?
 
Beginner question regarding phases and access point devices: when I'm adding the lamplincs in the path between switch and trigger to test improvement, do I need to make sure they're only placed in different phases? If they're on the same phase, are they still helping to carry over the RF signal?

There should be no harm in putting access points together on the same phase. However, your benefit would be limited. You may get a signal past some noisy or signal sucking stuff in your house.
 
Well, never a major problem.
Fair point. A more accurate statement from me would have been that I have never had any problem with upgrading to later versions of ISY software. There is no reason to be hesitant to run the latest beta versions, in my experience.
 
Added the lamplincs in a path to improve reception but not sure if they really did anything. The triggerlincs initially link up to the ISY fine, but then whenever I try to do something with them such as add to or remove them from scenes, I get a communication error and exclamation points next to them. Restoring them just gives off the same communication errors as well.

Latest project distraction for the past couple of days has involved attempting to connect the system to Siri on my iPhone, but alas, it's proving a lot more difficult than I expected. Everything runs fine except for the server and dnsmasq, so need to hit more forums for that.
 
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