Landscaping Lighting

[pete_c]

I currently have 4 primary zones of landscaping lighting. I am currently using commercial landscaping toroidal transformers. Two of the four have multiple voltages. Each transformer provides a maximum of 4 zones and a minimum of 1 zone. They are rated at 300 watts to 1200 watts and I am using 12 guage wire for all of the leads. The deck is using incandescent with small little metal "sconches?" which face down. These are each 7 watts X 8.


I am currently utiizing 20watt to 75watt halogen MR11's or MR16's. About 3 years ago tried installing a "few" multiple LED style with MR11 base lamps. I did not like the light or color so went back to halogens. These were 24 LED MR11 style lamps.

A couple of days ago ordered newer style 3 watt LED lamps. These have only three 1 watt LEDs and are supposed to be the equalvalent to 20 watt Halogen lamps. I ordered white light bulbs.

Concurrently have tested a Cree lamp outside now for about 3 years.

I am wondering if anyone has tested newer style higher output LED 12V lamps yet?

 

[Neurorad]

I have found the pro landscape lighting subforum at Lawnsite to be a good place to search.

http://www.lawnsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=117

You have to register to enable the search feature, I believe.

Last time I looked, about a year ago, the pros were still shying away from LEDs for landscape lighting.

BUT a quick google search of lawnsite.com for 'LED' (can't search for 3-letter words, apparently, using the forum search engine) shows many, many recent threads.

Pete, you'll appreciate the level of detail some of the pros go into, if you haven't already found that site.

Edit - N.B. Lawnsite used to send me newsletters, until I blocked their domain.

 

[pete_c]

Thanks Neurorad. Noticed over 3800 active users on forum....interesting.

Just checked out Kichler (have a few of these outside but halogen). They do have a line of LED's now - really expensive.

For example here is the deck lighting I am using (but uses little incandescent bulbs).

They were expensive but not $68 each. (got a deal though for 8 of them). I haven't replaced any of the bulbs on the deck yet but each is 7 watts. A new setup with LED's would be approximately 1 watt each.

Did find an LED all kind of bulb base web site.

LED bulbs

The Cree LED is the one that's worked outside now and the second picture is the new style I bought. Purchased MR11/16 bulbs and a couple of "kits" with three Pro style 1 watt LEDs.

 

[Michael McSharry]

Just a datapoint...

I tried the LED equivalent of the halogen 12V MR16 lamp used to shine on the trees and other landscape. The lumens were only a fraction of that of the halogen it replaced and that was obvious as it really did not cast enough light so I replace it with the standard halogen. It was a Walmart bulb at a cost of what I think was around $6.

 

[Neurorad]

Pete, have you considered tighter control of the landscape lights, other than a timeclock? Something like UPB or RA2?

Would make LEDs more challenging, but not impossible, IMO.

 

[pete_c]

Today I am using powerline modules to turn on and off the transformers.

I did purchase a couple of years ago "first gen" multiple LED (MR11's and MR16's); yes they were dim and the colors were not really white.

 

[dublin00]

I have seven of the new Kichler LED landscape lights (all up-lights on 20-25ft trees, (4) 12.4W and (3) 9W LED up-lights). We picked these up from a professional landscape designer last fall.

These really are very bright. They replaced (4) 50W halagon uplights on a very large japanese green maple and two huge sago palms and (3) 20W halagon uplights on three other tall slender trees. By our eyes they appear to put out more light than the original halagons, especially the 20W ones. The light color also blends fine with our remaining conventional path lights on the same circuit.

These Kichler lights are expensive, but with the cost of electricity here (0.35 cents kwh) it looks like we should make back most of the cost in two years.

 

[pete_c]

Yes currently using 50Watt Halogens for three trees. Today recieved first two 3 watt's LEDs. These are supposed to be equivalent to 20watt halogen.

The lamps are well put together. They even have screws that hold the surrounding shield (heatsink) in place.

 

[oberkc]

I have completely converted from incadescent to LED. While one may find it difficult to find MR-16 bulbs in LED to match output of halogen, I have found LED bright enough for my interests. Note, also, that not all LED are created equal. It took a small amount of experimentation to find the LED lamps that produced color and pattern that satisfied me.

Further details...I have simply purchased replacement lamps for my existing fixtures. I have been happy with this source:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm

Just beware that some products perform better than others.

Also, I understand that "standard" transformers may supply too high a voltage for LEDs. I have replaced all my transformers with a more regulated power supply (also from superbrightled). I use four power supplies, in the extreme corners of the house. All are installed inside. LV wire exits the house at the foundation, through conduit. All power supplies are controlled via insteon plug-in modules, and ISY-99 controller, set for sunset-1100p. Having multiple power supplies adds a benefit to being able to separately control circuits. I have different lighting scenes for winter versus summer. Another benefit to insteon (or similar) control of separate lighting circuits is that I can, and do, incorporate some of my 110v exterior lighting into my landscape scene (also LED lamps).

For the 12V system, I have cable runs of over 200ft. I have noticed no differing brightness between fixtures. I assume this is due to lower current draw and subsequent less voltage drop over cable distance. All cable is 12g. Total power use for my system is about 40watts, based on a Kilawatt meter. I have had no lamp failure yet. My oldest are about three years old.

While there still may be some issues with beam spread and pattern, I consider these minor compared to the benefits. I am very happy with my current setup and will not go back to incadescent.

 

[pete_c]

" Further details...I have simply purchased replacement lamps for my existing fixtures."

That is what I am looking to do. I have a real mix of different mfg lighting mostly all halogen now but a few still incandescent. Also using 4 commercial transformers (all inside mounted) with "old" x10 switches. I tried to update to combo insteon a few years ago and had some issues so left them at X10.

I ran all my exterior low voltage wire to one point in the basement where the four transformers are located. All four have multiple breaker circuits, toroidal coiled transformers and two have multiple voltages.

I've noticed that I am constantly replacing the halogen lamps and never replacing the incandescent lamps.

Looking first to replace my deck lighting to LED by changing out bulbs to LED's. These are small two terminal almost automotive style lamps. Noticed that Superbrightleds carry similar base LED lamps.

Thanks for the tips oberkc.

 

[oberkc]

Some additional thoughts....

I, too, like the forum over at Lawnsite. Check it out if you have not already. Also, at DIY.net there is a forum for landscape lighting.

Also, pay attention to connections. Those little, cheap, spike-type connections common in so many of the DIY landscape fixtures are worthless for long-term use. Find a better way to make those connections that suit your preferences. Mine are all soldered and sealed with wirenuts/silicone.

From the mentioned forums, I have come to understand that bulb life is greatly affected by voltages. Those that still deal with incadescent or halogen must pay great attention to voltages at the fixture. Given the relatively high current of incadescents, voltage drop is a real consideration. Fixtures close to the transformer will see a significantly different voltage than those farther away. Circuit design (series, daisy-chain, loop) are all tools that one can use to ensure relatively consistent voltages at each fixture. I suspect your voltages are too high for you to be experiencing failure rates that you describe.

This is not something that I have felt the need to deal with using LEDs. Of course, the type of transformer makes a difference here. The only thing that I have done is confirm voltage at the transformer taps, to ensure it was not overdriving my fixtures.

The bulbs that are typical with most of my fixtures fall into three categories: wedge base, bi-pin, and reflector. I have tried several types from SuperbrightLED and have settled on these as my favorites:

For wedge base, I like:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/sto...p6.htm%23MALIBU.

For bi-pin, check out the "G4 Lamps with High Power SMD LEDs". I even use some of these as MR-11 and MR-16 replacements.

If the above don't satisfy your needs for MR-16, then I suggest:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/sto...MR16-x48SMD.htm

In all cases, be aware of light color. I prefer the warm white varieties except in a couple of my fixtures (those frosted lenses).

Enjoy! It is a lot of fun.

 

[mdesmarais]

Great links guys! Thanks!

 

[pete_c]

Also, pay attention to connections. Those little, cheap, spike-type connections common in so many of the DIY landscape fixtures are worthless for long-term use. Find a better way to make those connections that suit your preferences. Mine are all soldered and sealed with wirenuts/silicone.

Yes I soldered/sealed all of my connections to the lighting.

The test 1 and 3 watt LED lamps that I purchased are warm white. The ones I received yesterday are have 3 1 watt LEDs each. I was concerned with the multiple LED MR16's because those were the first ones that I tested about 3 years ago. At the time color and brightness was ok but not enough to convince me to change. Will the ones in the links a try.

Thank-you.

 

[Dave X10]

I've converted to LED. I replaced the halogen (and regular 12v low voltage) I was using. I went from 110 watts to about 16 watts.

I purchased three sets of Westinghouse landscape lights... and I am currently using just over two sets of lights. One of the lights I disassembled the fixture and rewired the socket (and bulb) for use in a lamp in our gazebo. The remaining lights I am saving for parts. I wish I could find a link to share... but I can't. The set are "prewired" and I did need to do some rewiring and making longer runs.

The lights are controlled by a photocell I had wired for landscape lighting some years ago. This setup pre-dates and remains separate from my Home Automation Setup.

My lamppost which had been using 3 each 15 watt lights (which was controlled by it's own photocell) I replaced with solar lamp (made for lampposts).

Then I replaced my motion sensor operated front door lights (2 each 25 watt) with new fixtures and 3.5 watt LED lights. They are now controlled by X10. A floodlight (PR511) turns the lights ON at dusk and OFF at dawn... while a timer turns the same lights off at midnight and on around 5 AM.

Of course... the lights aren't as bright or as [pretty] white as the halogen. But the lights (and lighting) are still very attractive. They provide plenty of enough light for safety and security. And they replaced the nice but aging (rusting) fixtures I was using.

 

[pete_c]

Thanks Dave. I think the newer LED's are a bit better with the white light now. I purchased 120VAC "hockey puck" style lights for under my garage workbench and they are not too bad colorwise.

I haven't plugged in the new LED lamps I purchased as I'm waiting for a "batch" I ordered from China to see what they look like side by side.

A side LED "experiment" will be to put a few of the new LED landscaping lights in my court Island using a solar panel / batteries.