Monitor breaker tripping

[robolo]

I have a separate subpanel out to my pool equipment about 100 yards from the house. Occasionally the panel breaker will trip and there will be no power to the pool equipment until the next visit of the pool maintenance service. How could I monitor the status of the breaker so that when it trips I will be notified? I cannot run any new wiring to the house. Also the house is old with thick plaster walls and copper roofing making wireless transmitters ineffective.

I have Elk M1, Charmed Quark (CQC), and UPB systems

Would there be a type of UPB module that I could plug in to the pool equipment zone whose communication could be monitored and when communication is lost an alarm would be triggered?

 

[Event5]

I have a separate subpanel out to my pool equipment about 100 yards from the house. Occasionally the panel breaker will trip and there will be no power to the pool equipment until the next visit of the pool maintenance service. How could I monitor the status of the breaker so that when it trips I will be notified? I cannot run any new wiring to the house. Also the house is old with thick plaster walls and copper roofing making wireless transmitters ineffective.

I have Elk M1, Charmed Quark (CQC), and UPB systems

Would there be a type of UPB module that I could plug in to the pool equipment zone whose communication could be monitored and when communication is lost an alarm would be triggered?

robolo,

One way to do this is with a SA UMI-32w. Set up a timer that sends a link to the UMI every hour. Have the link momentaraly close a set of contacts on the UMI that are connected to an input of the UMI. Have the UMI send a return link to your system. If the power drops out the return link will not arrive as programmed and you will know the power is out.

Just a thought
Dave

 

[Digger]

I have a separate subpanel out to my pool equipment about 100 yards from the house. Occasionally the panel breaker will trip and there will be no power to the pool equipment until the next visit of the pool maintenance service. How could I monitor the status of the breaker so that when it trips I will be notified? I cannot run any new wiring to the house. Also the house is old with thick plaster walls and copper roofing making wireless transmitters ineffective.

I have Elk M1, Charmed Quark (CQC), and UPB systems

Would there be a type of UPB module that I could plug in to the pool equipment zone whose communication could be monitored and when communication is lost an alarm would be triggered?

Is the subpanel in the house or outside? If it is in the house put an outlet by the subpanel for that circuit. Plug a direct plug in power supply into that outlet that powers a relay. If the power goes out the relay could trip a zone on the M1.

 

[robolo]

Is the subpanel in the house or outside? If it is in the house put an outlet by the subpanel for that circuit. Plug a direct plug in power supply into that outlet that powers a relay. If the power goes out the relay could trip a zone on the M1.

The Main panel as well as the pool subpanel are outside the house so no way to set up an outlet inside the house.

 

[robolo]

robolo,

One way to do this is with a SA UMI-32w. Set up a timer that sends a link to the UMI every hour. Have the link momentaraly close a set of contacts on the UMI that are connected to an input of the UMI. Have the UMI send a return link to your system. If the power drops out the return link will not arrive as programmed and you will know the power is out.

Just a thought
Dave

Thanks for the suggestion Dave

I was thinking along those lines but could I do something simpler? What if I plug in the UMI to one of the pool equipment outlets and jumper the dry contacts with a straight wire and set it up as a always closed zone in ELK. If the power fails on the circuit wouldn't it trigger the zone alarm in Elk by then being open? Would that work?

 

[Event5]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave

I was thinking along those lines but could I do something simpler? What if I plug in the UMI to one of the pool equipment outlets and jumper the contacts with a straight wire and set it up as a always closed zone in ELK. If the power fails on the circuit wouldn't it trigger the zone alarm in Elk by then being open? Would that work?

Not sure if the UMI will work that way. I didn't know you had Elk wiring to the pool area. Sounds like Diggers idea is closer to what you were thinking. You wouldn't need a UMI to do what you are thinking.

Dave

 

[robolo]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave

I was thinking along those lines but could I do something simpler? What if I plug in the UMI to one of the pool equipment outlets and jumper the contacts with a straight wire and set it up as a always closed zone in ELK. If the power fails on the circuit wouldn't it trigger the zone alarm in Elk by then being open? Would that work?

Not sure if the UMI will work that way. I didn't know you had Elk wiring to the pool area. Sounds like Diggers idea is closer to what you were thinking. You wouldn't need a UMI to do what you are thinking.

Dave

Sorry if I confused the issue. I do not have ELK wiring to the pool area.

Only have electrical wiring to pool area. But I do have an ELK M1SXP interfacing my electrical wiring to my UPB switches and control modules. The Elk should be able to "see" a UMI plugged into the pool area electrical circuitry. You can use a UMI to monitor a set of dry contacts - like a door or window contact- so that is why I was thinking it could be used to monitor power since loss of power to the unit would look like and "open" contact to ELK (at least I think)

 

[DeLicious]

the problem with having a UMI monitor a set of dry contacts is that the UMI would be plugged into the same electircal wiring that just lost power, right? Once the breaker tripped, it wouldn't be able to send its signal back to the elk.

I think the first suggestion works in this case, basically pinging the UMI every hour to see if it is active.

 

[robolo]

the problem with having a UMI monitor a set of dry contacts is that the UMI would be plugged into the same electircal wiring that just lost power, right? Once the breaker tripped, it wouldn't be able to send its signal back to the elk.

I think the first suggestion works in this case, basically pinging the UMI every hour to see if it is active.

Yes the UMI would be plugged into the wiring that just had lost power. I just got off the phone with Simply Automated tech support. After brainstorming they agreed the best way would be as Dave had recommended. Basically pinging the UMI and lack of return signal would indicate loss of power.

 

[sda]

The practical side of me thinks: Your breaker shouldn't be tripping unless there's a problem. Having a pool breaker trip could be signs of a serious problem. If its happening often enough for you to want to monitor it, then its happening often enough to warrant fixing.

 

[robolo]

The practical side of me thinks: Your breaker shouldn't be tripping unless there's a problem. Having a pool breaker trip could be signs of a serious problem. If its happening often enough for you to want to monitor it, then its happening often enough to warrant fixing.

Of course you are right to question if an underlying serious problem may exist. In fact it does not happen all THAT frequently but since I have no indication when it happens it may go undetected for many many days. The reason for the monitor is not for the frequency of the breaker tripping, but the length of time it would go undetected during which the pool is not getting filtered.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

If you have a W800 receiver you could do something like THIS.

 

[robolo]

If you have a W800 receiver you could do something like THIS.

Wireless is not an available option due to thick plaster walls and copper roofing

 

[SteveQ]

If you have a W800 receiver you could do something like THIS.

Wireless is not an available option due to thick plaster walls and copper roofing

You could stick the transmitter on the exterior of the building.

I don't think however you want to use a currrent sensor to detect if the breaker is tripped; it would only work when the circuit is drawing current. I assume the equipment will cycle ON/OFF and the current sensor will detect this, but if the the circuit breaker trips, the current sensor could not differentiate this from a normal cycling of the load.

A better approach would be to hook up a relay across the breaker and connect the relay contacts to a DS10A. When the power goes OFF it would trigger the DS10A by breaking the circuit.

Even better, you should fix the breaker. It should not be tripping. It is either overloaded or the breaker is defective. You should first replace the breaker with a new one (or use an old one if you have an extra) with the same rating. If a new breaker keeps tripping then you have something else going on. Perhaps you have a motor that is failing and requires an abnormally high ccurrent to start it. You should really try to fix the problem rather than install a device to tell you that the circuit breaker has tripped.

Steve Q

 

[SteveQ]

Is there a GFCI breaker on this circuit? If yes, these are notoriously tempermental; a newer one will work better. If no, you probably should install one. It may solve the problem and improve the safety of your pool area.

Steve Q