Motion detectors for Elk M1 Gold

[jmed999]

I have an Elk M1 Gold and I'm looking for some good wired and wireless motion detectors. I have the Elk-M1XRFEG and I'm looking for motion detectors to use with my ISY home automation system.

I have a GE Pet Immune motion detector I use in the living room but I've heard those do not work well with home automation systems.

ie. When I walk out on my screened in deck and the temp is above 80F I want my ceiling fans to turn on. I don't think the motion detector I have will work for that. Plus those are expensive. So do you guys have wired and wireless motion detectors you recommend for this type application?

Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

Any PIR is going to have capture issues if the background or enviromental temperature is not that much different than the target object (person). A PIR designed for security is not going to trip the same or be as sensitive as an automation detector.

REX PIR's are more sensitive than standard alarm PIR's but still have the same caveat. You can change technologies, like RCR or MW to help performance, but if you're already complaining about the cost of a standard wired detector, it's going to be worse with other technologies.

How about a rule based on you opening the door leading to the deck?

 

[jmed999]

The rule would work but it would also work when coming in from the deck too. It wouldn't know the difference. The pet isn't on the deck so the recommendations I'm hoping to get for the deck and garage do not need to be pet sensitive. Thansk for your reply!

 

[jmed999]

The pet immune wireless GE was $100. I'm hoping to get a non pet motion detector recommendations (wired and wireless) that would work with home automation and maybe cheaper than $100 each.

 

[tmbrown97]

The reason that wireless security sensors aren't that great for automation is that they basically trigger once then go silent for a preset time - like a couple minutes (I'd have to look up exact) - so it's hard to know when motion is continuing - but for the rule you've mentioned - ie: if there's motion on the back deck and temp is over 80°, then turn on fan... that'd work fine. In fact, usually someone would put the rule as "turn on the fan for 1 hour"; then every time motion is detected, the timer would reset (assuming it's still over 80&deg.

But as Del mentioned, PIR when ambient temperature is too close to human body temperature it may fail to detect; in those cases, Microwave is better (for automation only) or dual-tech (for security AND automation).

 

[Del91574]

I've used pulsors also for applications similar, where asthetics were more of a concern, and made the floor itself a "sensor" based on weight in certain areas.

Most of the wireless PIR's have around a 90-180 second transmission inhibit. Honeywell is 180 off the top of my head.

Most "security" pir's aren't going to be sensitive enough for a straight up automation task, otherwise more would need to be installed to guarantee coverage to drive automation events.

 

[jmed999]

Thanks for the help guys!

What sensors do you guys recommend (wired and wireless) for automation purposes? Such as on a deck and in a garage? I would like to use them in concert with my ISY. ie. when the temp is over 80 and someone is on the deck the ISY turns the ceiling fans on for 15 min. Also, when someone is in the garage and it's after sunset but before sunrise, turn the garage lights on for 10 min.

Thanks!

 

[tmbrown97]

Security PIR's aren't good for occupancy detection, but would catch someone walking into a room just fine - that's no different than detecting a burglar. They just aren't as good for automating things like turning on the stair lights, etc - because they tend to take a second longer to detect; they also aren't good for occupancy detection.

For the specific example the OP gave however, security and/or wireless would get the job done just fine.

For stuff that's purely just for automation, I also have a W800RF32 tied into my HA machine so I can use those cheap X10RF motion detectors. They get the job done, only cost a couple bucks each, they're rated for outdoors/weather - they're not super sensitive and they can't be used for security, but they get the job done.

 

[jmed999]

So for the ceiling fans I could have them turn on for 15 minutes but if we are sitting out there for a while would the PIR still work to continuously keep the fan on while we are out there? I wouldn't want to have to wave my arms every 15 minutes to keep the fans on, lol.

 

[jmed999]

Maybe I should just bypass my Elk M1G and use my ISY exclusively. I could then use this sensor... http://www.smarthome...n-Sensor/p.aspx

Thoughts?

 

[tmbrown97]

The ISY is a good way to go IMO since it's for automation and not security - they use cheap sensors which are not adequate for security, but even better for automation.

15 minutes and it probably won't work well. An hour, sure. At 15 minutes, you would likely have to wave your hands every so often!