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Motion Sensors/Security Systems

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
I'm ready to start implementing a home brewed security system for my home using an Ocelot with an SECU16I supervised digital input module.

Edit: Read below on new methodology

I already have my home pre-wired, but what I really need advice on is:

1. Exterior motion sensors (wired), which ones are good for use outdoors in the sun

2. Glass break and, possibly combined with, an indoor motion sensor

3. Keypad access which can be used with the digital input module.

Its always good to hear peoples experiences with various brands and units out there.

Thanks,

BSR
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
Not only Rupp, but JRFuda also. I know that he recently did a project with an SECU16I and had it so Homeseer could read the variables.

Will probably need both of them to help once I get this off of the ground. This is backorderd and I haven't received it yet. (ordered through Worthington, Martin: Do you sell any Applied Digital products?)

There is also this thread from Applied Digital's forums that had some good info.

http://www.appdigsupport.com/cgi-bin/ultim...ic;f=3;t=000009

Will also need some glass break sensors and motion sensors (all wired).

Was thinking about some motion sensors here:
http://www.securityideas.com/motdet.html

I have no idea how to wire a fire alarm, but haven't looked into that yet.
 

AutomatedOutlet

Senior Member
I have sold them before and also received distributor pricing from them. For their products, you have to buy at least 50 at a time to get half-away decent pricing directly from them. I do have some other sources for stuff like that and will probably start stocking them at some point but right now I think the next major area I'll be going in is Lightolier. That one will be a large up-front investment but I think it will be worth it.

P.S. - Thanks for defending me on the HS board about also carrying HAL software!
 

jrfuda

Active Member
Ahhhh. I was just replying to this thread and we had a power outage. Bad Karma for posting from work I guess ;)

I just my NCO to get a cheapo UPS for each PC in the shop on the next supply run, that should fix it...


Anyway, back on topic.

I believe their are some good posts over in the applied digital message board about pure-ocelot security systems. What would be neat would be to 1st setup the pure-ocelot system,and then create ways to monitor & control it from HomeSeer, but HomeSeer would not be required for full security system functionality. I think there are some CMAX programs already posted at the message board too.

Here's my suggestion on how to do it. Martin, forgive me for not linking to products at your site, but as it's been said before Smarthome's a good place to "window shop," so let's go window shopping!

First, for a way to arm and disarm. This is a bit pricey ($99), but this 6-relay receiver: http://www.smarthome.com/7446wa.html can give you all sorts of secure ways to arm and disarm your alarm system, and maybe do a few extra things (like open/close the garage door) all with one remote! It comes with one remote and extra remotes http://www.smarthome.com/7446.html are $45 each. My wife does not like the big bulky X10 security remotes we have now, so I'm thinking of getting these to use, in conjunction with my Ocelot & SECU to arm/disarm the system. I'll still need to use the X10 wireless security stuff for monitoring, because I move every few years, So I can't have a completely HomeSeer-free security system.

Next thing would be to put some cheap contact switches http://www.smarthome.com/seccontacts.html everywhere you can think of, (and dependent on how many SECU16I's you have) to monitor your doors, windows, etc.

Then it's time for some indoor and Outdoor hard-wired motion sensors.

The only hard-wired glass break sensors I have personal experience were ones that were hard-wired into an apartment I lived in about 5 years ago. They were too sensitive and gave me false alarms all the time (Either that or someone was breaking glass in/near my apartment when I was away from home almost every day). I have one X10 RF one now and it seems to work OK (It gives nbo falsey's, but I haven't had any glass break to test it with [I geuss that's good news]).

Everything I mentioned can be wired directly to the SECU's supervised inputs.

The good news, is once setup, you can have it all run independently on the Ocelot, but have the luxury of being able to monitor every little thing via HomeSeer, and Arming/Disarming over the phone or web with HomeSeer. The bad news is, by the time you buy an Ocelot, one or two SECUs, the relay receiver with an extra remote, all the contact sensors and the motion detectors, you probably could have bought a security system with RS232 comms that could talk to HomeSeer. But that's no fun!

And of course, you could "exclude" the cost of the Ocelot from the system since it has so many other uses... and a lot of the other stuff can be bought for a really good price from folks like Martin and some of those clearance houses people have been posting about later. Other good news about using the Ocelot is that you can mix and match to your heart's content, where as a lot of alarm manufacturers require to use their stuff only.

Now that's about all I know this topic (most of it leached off everyone here and about). Whenever you're ready to do some power detection and/or watchdog stuff with the Ocelot, I can really square you away :wub:
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
Well, I've actually changed plans and am going with a Caddx NX8E Security based system.

The main reason is wife wanted something more mainstream for resale. The X-10 hardware will stay in our home and it could easily be integrated with the Caddx system. I'm not sure if I will leave the Ocelot and SECU16I with the home.
Plus the Caddx system should already have an autodialer built in to it for a security alarm monitoring company.

Here is what I'm thinking about getting:

Caddx kit consisting of an NX8E, Motion Sensor, Battery, Case, AC Adapter, LCD Keypad, and will ALSO order a 16 zone expander, glass break sensor, fire alarm, Serial Adapter, PSC05 power line interface, and two more cheaper 24 zone LED keypads.

I'm researching what glass break and fire alarm sensors to purchase. Worthington suggested looking to ESL.
 

electron

Administrator
Staff member
I personally wouldn't leave any X10 hardware in a house, but that's me :unsure: I do agree that caddx is the way to go, and since companies like smarthome.com can monitor it for 8 bucks a month, it's a pretty good setup.
 

JohnBullard

Active Member
Fooy on you BSR!

I was just really getting into this thread hopeing to learn something new, and you go commercial (wife's right about resale though).

I too have been looking for some RELIABLE outdoor motion detectors!

What I'm using now is two X10 Floods, without the lights, Just the PIR and its controls to monitor my driveway. Gave up on the Hawkeye and Eagleeyes a long time ago. When #1 detects motion, it starts a timer routine in the Ocelot, if #2 also detects motion within 15 seconds, it causes the "DOG" in the garage to bark, a chime module in the house to alert to driveway motion, so we can look at the camera monitors.

To try to reduce false triggers, each sensor is on opposite sides of the driveway about 10 feet down from the other one, angled so there is NO coverage overlap.

So far this works great in that it only triggers on motion INTO the driveway, not LEAVING the driveway.

Since moving the sensors to opposite sides of the driveway, it has tremendously reduced false triggers, but not entirely.

Since you started this thread on security, may I hijack it to encourage more posts and ideas on outside motion detectors?

I know mine could use some improvement.


Thanks
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
No way John, this is my thread, stay out!! Just kidding of course! I would LOVE to learn of some good reliable outdoor motion detectors. I'm looking for "wired" instead of the wireless since I will wire this into the Caddx system (what kind are you interested in?)

Yea, I was looking forward to using the SECU16I/Ocelot combination. Was following a thread about Senco Keypads for around $38 that I was planning on using. It would have been cheaper also.

But, I do have to agree with the wife. She doesn't give "suggestions" on my projects that often, so err aaa, enough said eh!! ;)

It seems that the good outdoor motion sensors that I found are also expensive. I have problems with heat and wind living here in Las Vegas also.

Here are some links to types I'm investigating.

http://www.ademco.com/ademco/products/sensors/default.htm
http://www.securityideas.com/motdet.html
http://www.sentrol.com/products/id_motion.asp
http://www.safe-mart.com/mode.html



Talk to you later,

BSR
 

JohnBullard

Active Member
Gosh BSR, for a moment there you had this "Old Man" thinking he had really offended one of the Great Guru's ;)

I gave up on wireless motion sensors a long time ago.

That's why I "modified" the X10 Floodlights just to get the function of the sensors, since I already had buried 120 volt cable around most of my property perimeters. I have 3 of my X10 Cams with Ninja mounts located approx 20 to 30 feet from corners of my house, so that they constantly scan the driveway, sidewalk and look at the house. My 4th X10 Cam is mounted under the stoop of my front porch, looking at the door.

Each camera is set to a different Xmitt freg, and I have 4 receivers feeding in a video/audio sequencer, scanning each for 10 secs. The sequencher feeds it output to a UHF TV transmitter on UHF channel 14. I use 13" color TV's scattered around the house all tuned to channel 14. This allows me to always be within 30 seconds of seeing the view from any camera.

I'm rambling, sorry. Anyway, since I had 120 Volt buried power almost everywhere outside, I decided to use the modified X10 floods for my motion sensors.

But I'm open to wired sensors connected to a SECU-16.

Thanks
 

electron

Administrator
Staff member
That's why I bought those radar based motion sensors, I doubt they will have any false positives, and I can even leave them indoor to find out if someone is walking up to my house. I just have to figure out how to drive a relay with them so I can hook them up to my gameport for reliable monitoring. Not sure what else to do without spending big imaginary bucks.
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
Electron:

Those sensors are great, except their range is to limited. I would like to know their power though because you were thinking about using them for monitoring who is in a bedroom while sleeping. I'm not causing any alarm (hey thats kinda funny using that expression in this thread) but I would like to check out if there are any long term exposure problems with this "radar".

I have people at work that should be able to provide an answer to this but I need the frequency and power that these things put out. If someone could be kind enough to supply that information I would appreciate it.

John:

So you use 120 VAC motion detectors and monitor the X-10 signal in the power line then? Do you have any problems with those signals flooding your system? I've also found that a lot of motion detectors seem to use 12 vdc so they can be used with the alarm system's battery backup, so your selections may be limited if you decide to stay with the 120 VAC.
 

electron

Administrator
Staff member
lol BSR, you probably have a good point, I will use them to hunt down mice and monitor the front doors I guess ;) I have the leviton floodlights myself, and they are going bad now, creating a lot of noise on the lines, if it keeps up, I will have to replace them and find a better solution to monitor my driveway.
 

JohnBullard

Active Member
BSR,

I'm not "married" to the X10 120VAC sensors, I'm always looking for new options of something that is reliable.

The wireless sensors were horrible for outdoor use. So I tried ONE of the 120VAC sensors. Had lots of false alarms. Due to sun, wind, animals, birds, etc (Yeah birds. One day when the driveway alarm went off, I looked in the monitors and a bird was perched on the sensor.)

Adding the second sensor facing 180 degrees opposite solved most of the false alarms, (especially from sun and wind) but not 100%.

As far as flooding the power line with X10 signals, I haven't really noticed that. When working outside in the summer, mowing, etc, I just kill the power to the sensors.

I could use 12 or 24 volt sensors, if they would be reliable and immune to the outside environment. I had even thought about using a laser illuminated photo cell type arrangement, but never got around to building it. (too many ideas and projects, so little time!)

The link you posted above to Safe-Mart looks promising and appears to be able to interface with the SECU-16. Might be worth exploring for this spring when I start doing stuff outside again.

Always open to new options, keep them coming!

Thanks
 
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