Need guidance for new Elk M1G installation.

[123]

I plan to replace my 12 year-old DSC alarm panel with an Elk M1G. I've read what I could find about the M1G but I still need some help determining what I need to purchase.

I plan to start with the M1GSYS4 kit (M1G, M1-KP keypad, cabinet, speaker, battery, transformer, telephone jack) plus a second M1-KP keypad. Regarding the M1GSYS4's included speaker, is it used for voice-announcements, alarm-bell, or both?

Can I re-use the old siren with the M1G? I'd like to have one siren mounted outside the house and one inside. If the speaker is used for voice and alarm, then I've got that covered for the interior. Can the M1G's power supply handle two sirens or do I need to add an auxiliary power supply?

The existing DSC system has eight zones consisting of three entrance-door contacts, two glass break sensors, a motion detector, alarm-panel door contact, and a window contact. I suspect all of them can be easily connected to the M1G and I can grow the system from there. The existing keypads will be replaced with the M1KP's. Is the M1-KP's built-in speaker used for voice-announcements?

I also plan to drive my Orbit sprinkler system with the M1G. I believe the majority of the outputs can only source 50 mA so I'll probably need relays to drive the 24V sprinkler valves. What should I get from Elk to drive the valves? The M1RB?

Just out of curiousity, with an Elk-930 Doorbell Detector can you have a voice-announcement whenever someone "rings" the doorbell?

Thank you for your help.

 

[rfdesq]

Indoor speaker is used for voice and alarm.

Check the current (amperage) requirements for the old siren. Does it have its own driver? Plan on an aux power supply.

KP speaker is for beeps only no voice.

The M1RB is a good choice, its built in relays will be able to handle your sprinkler requirements.

I haven't used the ELK 930 but my guess is that if it has a switch closure upon a door bell ringing you can write a rule to voice announce.

 

[Spanky]

123, welcome aboard.

You can use existing sirens by connecting them to output 2 set for voltage output or any other relay output br writing two Rules. One to turn on the output upon alarm with a output turn off time out of say 10 minutes. Another to turn off the siren upon disarming. Make sure you are not drawing too much current upon alarm . I would stay below 2 amps on alarm. Otherwise, add a power supply.

If you have two keypads or less on the DSC system you can put them at each end of the data bus wiring which is probably 4 conductor wire, not CAT5. More than two keypads will need a M1DBR Data Bus Hub for retrofit which will allow 4 conductor wire to the keypads and recreate individual RS485 data busses. If you should have CAT5 wire already run to the keypads you do not need the M1DBR.

You will have to write some simple Rules to control the sprinkler system using the Output Relays. M1RB Relay output is fine. If you need more outputs you can use the M1XOVR for adding the output to the data bus.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I also plan to drive my Orbit sprinkler system with the M1G. I believe the majority of the outputs can only source 50 mA so I'll probably need relays to drive the 24V sprinkler valves. What should I get from Elk to drive the valves? The M1RB?

I just replied to a topic on this subject HERE. You can use the relay expansion module or just get individual relays and drive them with the Elk outputs.

 

[123]

Thanks go out to to everyone for the quick replies!

OK, Spanky, you've got me scratching my head about the Data Bus Hub. I wasn't planning on re-using the DSC keypads because they're a bit rudimentary (illuminated numerals indicating the status of eight zones) however, you're correct, the existing keypad wiring is 4 conductor wire. I was planning on simply swapping out the old keypads with the M1KP's. Will they function properly with the 4-wire or do I need to use the Data bus Hub? Each run is about 30 feet.

If I install a third M1KP, can I connect it with the other two keypads (serial?) or do I need the Data Bus Hub?

Back to the siren, it is similar to the ELK-74 (draws 1/2A) so I guess I should be OK with the stock power supply. However, if I wanted to add a third siren (interior speaker plus two exterior sirens) I guess I'd be pushing the 2 Amp envelope? So three sirens and a strobe puts me outside of the safe zone and in need of the auxiliary supply, yes?

 

[ChrisRM]

If you are just using two keypads, you can simply swap your existing DSC keypads with the Elk KP's. The M1/EZ8's data bus is a high speed 485 data bus which need to be kept in series(no star/homerun topology). Home running the two keypads will require you to put the 485 terminating resistors at the two keypads(Jumpers on back of the keypads). When you add a third keypad, you can run a 4 conductor wire from one of the keypads to the new keypad, then place the terminating resistor here instead. There are many ways to get around this, perhaps some of the readers here can share their ideas and experiences. Once you get to this point and have any problems, post your wiring scenario to the forum... There are lots of members of this forum with a plethora of Elk knowledge...

With three keypads, two sirens, speaker, and a strobe, I would go ahead and put in a auxiliary supply...

 

[Digger]

If you are just using two keypads, you can simply swap your existing DSC keypads with the Elk KP's. The M1/EZ8's data bus is a high speed 485 data bus which need to be kept in series(no star/homerun topology). Home running the two keypads will require you to put the 485 terminating resistors at the two keypads(Jumpers on back of the keypads). When you add a third keypad, you can run a 4 conductor wire from one of the keypads to the new keypad, then place the terminating resistor here instead. There are many ways to get around this, perhaps some of the readers here can share their ideas and experiences. Once you get to this point and have any problems, post your wiring scenario to the forum... There are lots of members of this forum with a plethora of Elk knowledge...

With three keypads, two sirens, speaker, and a strobe, I would go ahead and put in a auxiliary supply...

I replaced an Ademco panel with the ELK and used the retrofit hub since I had several home runs for keypads etc. Worked out well. I also put in an auxialary supply with battery backup.

 

[123]

OK, I think I get it. Keep all keypads connected in series. Otherwise, in a homerun scenario, it can have a maximum of two "legs" but each leg can have more than one keypad and the last one on the leg must have its terminating jumper set. Is that right?


Too bad the keypads can't "talk". The two keypads are not close to one another so I'll need more than one speaker within the house so that the announcements can be heard at both keypads. Is that the way it's normally done?

 

[123]

...
I also put in an auxialary supply with battery backup.

That would be the ELK-412K? 12V 4A Power Supply with battery and cabinet?

 

[Digger]

...
I also put in an auxialary supply with battery backup.

That would be the ELK-412K? 12V 4A Power Supply with battery and cabinet?

I used a diferent one and put it into one of the 28" cabinets I have for my ELK equipment (I have two 28" and two 14" cabinets). It might be cost effective for you to use a larger cabinet and then add a power supply board without its own cabinet. I started small and built it up over time.

If you have time take a week of two and draw up a couple of different plans with different approaches and take the best parts of all and finalize your plans.

 

[ChrisRM]

It sounds like you have the data bus configuration down...

As far as speakers:

Elk manufactures a small speaker that can be mounted behind the KP2. Please refer to the following link:
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-sp12f.htm

This is a 32 ohm speaker that can be connected to OUT1 on the M1. Being that it is 32 ohms, you can hook multiple speakers in parallel without worying about overloading the OUT1. This is assuming that you can get a pair of wires to the keypad to drive the speaker...

 

[123]

...
Elk manufactures a small speaker that can be mounted behind the KP2. Please refer to the following link:
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-sp12f.htm
...

Hey, now we're talkin'!

I noticed the KP2 can be mounted onto a custom recessed box (ELK-M1BBK2) with what appears to be an opening for a speaker. So I can mount the speaker behind the keypad, yes? Do I use the same kit (ELK-SP12F) for that purpose or is it another part number?

So the KP keypad does not have a built-in, voice-capable speaker and is not designed to fit over the ELK-M1BBK2 recessed box with speaker?

 

[politics123]

...
Elk manufactures a small speaker that can be mounted behind the KP2. Please refer to the following link:
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-sp12f.htm
...

Hey, now we're talkin'!

I noticed the KP2 can be mounted onto a custom recessed box (ELK-M1BBK2) with what appears to be an opening for a speaker. So I can mount the speaker behind the keypad, yes? Do I use the same kit (ELK-SP12F) for that purpose or is it another part number?

So the KP keypad does not have a built-in, voice-capable speaker and is not designed to fit over the ELK-M1BBK2 recessed box with speaker?

The recessed box can support a speaker (using the cut-out) and the keypad. I think there's a post here where someone added pictures. NOTE: speaker needs to be provided with sound source from the ELK; you need a separate set of speaker cables for this.

 

[123]

...
The recessed box can support a speaker (using the cut-out) and the keypad. I think there's a post here where someone added pictures. NOTE: speaker needs to be provided with sound source from the ELK; you need a separate set of speaker cables for this.

OK, thanks for the tip, I found it here.
It also answers my other question; I simply need to remove the speaker from an SP12F and install it in the recessed box.

My list of parts is growing (3 sirens, 3 keypads, 1 strobe) so it looks like I will need an auxiliary power supply. What are the recommended solutions and Elk part numbers? I found the ELK-412K but Digger posted that he used something else.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

...
The recessed box can support a speaker (using the cut-out) and the keypad. I think there's a post here where someone added pictures. NOTE: speaker needs to be provided with sound source from the ELK; you need a separate set of speaker cables for this.

OK, thanks for the tip, I found it here.
It also answers my other question; I simply need to remove the speaker from an SP12F and install it in the recessed box.

My list of parts is growing (3 sirens, 3 keypads, 1 strobe) so it looks like I will need an auxiliary power supply. What are the recommended solutions and Elk part numbers? I found the ELK-412K but Digger posted that he used something else.

HERE is a listing of the Elk power supply options, but if it were me, I would just use the four amp model so you have power for future projects.