Need help installing GE 3-way Z-Wave switch!

[dignan17]

Hello everyone, I'm happy to have found a great forum for home automation, as it's been a hobby of mine for 10 years but I'm still basically a novice

I'm in urgent need of assistance with my 3-way switch install (GE's 3-way Z-Wave product). I have everything out and I want to install it right before I put it back!

Here's the deal. The instructions don't match what my home has. At both ends of my current 3-way switches, out of the wall I have two black wires, one red, and a bare ground. The instructions say that on one end, I'll have only three wires, one black, one colored, and a ground. Clearly, I have a wire that's unaccounted for.

I currently have a 3-way X10 switch installed. Those switches actually never had a ground (which has always made me nervous), and they have two black wires and one blue one. They matched my homes wiring correctly in that regard, that both ends were the same. Why is Z-Wave's different and how do I do this?

Please help! I'm trying to do this before it gets dark in here!

I even called GE's support line and they weren't very helpful. He mentioned something about how I have to have a "single pole location" or something. I don't know enough about wiring to be familiar with that term.

 

[myyaz33]

Hello everyone, I'm happy to have found a great forum for home automation, as it's been a hobby of mine for 10 years but I'm still basically a novice

I'm in urgent need of assistance with my 3-way switch install (GE's 3-way Z-Wave product). I have everything out and I want to install it right before I put it back!

Here's the deal. The instructions don't match what my home has. At both ends of my current 3-way switches, out of the wall I have two black wires, one red, and a bare ground. The instructions say that on one end, I'll have only three wires, one black, one colored, and a ground. Clearly, I have a wire that's unaccounted for.

I currently have a 3-way X10 switch installed. Those switches actually never had a ground (which has always made me nervous), and they have two black wires and one blue one. They matched my homes wiring correctly in that regard, that both ends were the same. Why is Z-Wave's different and how do I do this?

Please help! I'm trying to do this before it gets dark in here!

I even called GE's support line and they weren't very helpful. He mentioned something about how I have to have a "single pole location" or something. I don't know enough about wiring to be familiar with that term.

I know you won't like this answer, but based on your post I would put the X10 switch back in for now and go find a buddy that knows a little bit about wiring. It will be a much faster solution if they can identify the incoming hot,load and neutral wires. Part of the reason I say this is not because this is very complicated, but with these GE switches your wiring scheme may not be supported.

 

[dignan17]

Crud. That would suck. I don't think I have any buddies with this kind of knowledge. I didn't expect to have to hire an electrician to install these things. This'll cost a fortune!

Damn...

 

[oberkc]

Crud. That would suck. I don't think I have any buddies with this kind of knowledge. I didn't expect to have to hire an electrician to install these things. This'll cost a fortune!

Damn...

If this particular switch box has only the three wires, plus ground, you most likely will have to re-purpose some wiring. Fortunately, it is unlikely you will have to add any new wires. The three existing wires are likely two travelers and a common, plus bare ground. If my assumptions are correct, there is no unswitched power or neutral in this box. There are several ways to wire a three-way switch, depending on where supply is first introduced into the circuit.

It is possible that those around here can identify your wires, based on your description, but this can be time consuming. Are the boxes in which you wish to install the new switches only single boxes (one device)? How many light fixtures do these control? Are you comfortable posting pictures? Do you have a volt meter?

Another option is to search the web for three-way wiring diagrams and identify which matches yours.

 

[myyaz33]

If this particular switch box has only the three wires, plus ground, you most likely will have to re-purpose some wiring. Fortunately, it is unlikely you will have to add any new wires. The three existing wires are likely two travelers and a common, plus bare ground. If my assumptions are correct, there is no unswitched power or neutral in this box. There are several ways to wire a three-way switch, depending on where supply is first introduced into the circuit.

It is possible that those around here can identify your wires, based on your description, but this can be time consuming. Are the boxes in which you wish to install the new switches only single boxes (one device)? How many light fixtures do these control? Are you comfortable posting pictures? Do you have a volt meter?

Another option is to search the web for three-way wiring diagrams and identify which matches yours.

You'd be right about any other time with this advice, but with this particular GE switch, what you have posted couldn't be further from the truth.

The 3way wiring issue has been noted on a few forums but this one has confirmation from GE themselves
http://board.homeseer.com/showpost.php?p=954878&postcount=30

 

[intozwave]

Here's the deal. The instructions don't match what my home has. At both ends of my current 3-way switches, out of the wall I have two black wires, one red, and a bare ground. The instructions say that on one end, I'll have only three wires, one black, one colored, and a ground. Clearly, I have a wire that's unaccounted for.

If I understand what you are saying with the wiring in the box - the 2 black are probably line and load - the red wire is probably the traveler and the bare cooper is the ground. Is there a neutral in the box? The Z-Wave switch in the 45613 kit needs a neutral to work

 

[dignan17]

If I understand what you are saying with the wiring in the box - the 2 black are probably line and load - the red wire is probably the traveler and the bare cooper is the ground. Is there a neutral in the box? The Z-Wave switch in the 45613 kit needs a neutral to work

Yes, there does appear to be neutral wiring in most of the boxes, all bundled in the back of the switch box, so it looks like it skips the switch.

Otherwise, this is exactly what I have in my 3-way switch boxes right now:

- bundle of white wires (not connected to switch)
- two black wires (connected to two black wires on an X10 switch)
- one red wire (connected to one blue wire on the X10 switch)
- ground (bare copper - not connected to the X10 switch, which I'd rather not be the case)

It seems that I have one too many wires for the secondary GE switch.

 

[myyaz33]

That is potentially good news. FYI- It will be common to have one extra wire at the auxilary/secondary switch.

 

[dignan17]

That is potentially good news. FYI- It will be common to have one extra wire at the auxilary/secondary switch.

It will? But isn't one of those black wires coming from the wall important? It seems like I don't have the wires to connect to all of them...

 

[pbeaulieu]

You need to figure out how your 3 way is wired. I'm not an electrician and if you don't have one I would strongly suggest you buy an electrical book at local home improvement store (home Depo, Lowes, etc.). You're wireing situation is either:

1) power wire to box - wires to other box - wires to load (Light?)
2) power wire to box - wires to load - wires to other switch
3) power wire to load - wires to switch -wires to other switch

There may be other ways but these are the ones I am familiar with. So you need to figure out which is your situation. You need to now where the wires are going. I'm just guessing but you might have the situation #1. However, you have to figure out which wires have power, which go to the load and which go between the switches. Normally the red is the traveller between the switches.

I make no guarantees. I'm not an electrician. However, I have just finished installing 20 Leviton Vizia RF+ zwave switches in my house. They work well.

 

[mikejrc]

Your wire configuration is correct for a standard 3 way switch.

2 wires are travelers .
the other wire is called the common ( this is either the wire that connects to the light or the wire that brings power from either your electrical panel or from another device in your house).

these 3 wires are basically a hot, when you flip the switch one way, the common wire connects to one of travelers turning off or turning on the light depending of the status of the other 3 way switch down the hallway.

the travelers are nothing but 2 alternatives paths for your electricity to flow based on the state of those 2 switches at any given moment.

unless you tell me the exact model of this 3 way switch so i can look at the wiring diagram we are simply speculating

im an electrician

 

[mikejrc]

if you are talking about the GE 45614 Z-Wave 3-Way kit which has an auxiliary and primary switch then in order to connect it properly you will have to do a few things and you will need a tester or continuity tester to find the correct location of the wires. You need to be certain of which wire goes to the light, identify each individual traveler, and by elimination the supply or feed wire the one bringing power from the panel or other device

these switches have to be installed in specific places, hence knowing the wire locations.

first of all you will not have extra wires and the most important part your switches and anything else in your house should use that ground wire.

that ground wire is there to protect you and your family. I dont like the fact that in residential builders use bare ground because it could come in contact with any other current carrying conductor. In commercial this ground wire is insulated green.

Thats why when I install switches and receptacles, I only strip the exact amount of insulation from the wire and after it is landed to each screw then I cover with electrical tapes those screws so they are not exposed that way when you push the device inside the box that bare copper cant touch any screw terminals.

 

[oberkc]

You'd be right about any other time with this advice, but with this particular GE switch, what you have posted couldn't be further from the truth.

I think what I posted was more confusing than inaccurate. My references to the travelers and commons were best guesses at CURRENT CONFIGURATION, rather than how the new switch would be wired. Still, even this could be wrong, because the specific make and model of the existing X-10 switches were not given.

I still believe that there is sufficient wires and conductors in the existing installation, but that they may have to be repurposed to match the electrical needs of the new switches. No new wire needs to be added, in my estimation. I also agree with panamanian...one will need a continuity tester and will need to identify the existing wires.

 

[electron]

that ground wire is there to protect you and your family. I dont like the fact that in residential builders use bare ground because it could come in contact with any other current carrying conductor. In commercial this ground wire is insulated green.

I actually ran into this exact issue last weekend when I was installing a new switch. Bare ground got pushed against a terminal of another switch in the same gang box, and blew a breaker (plus damaged the stranded ground wire as it melted onto the terminal). I am going to get some insulated ground wire, and start replacing those bare 'jumpers' whenever I have to work on a switch (assuming this doesn't violate code).

 

[myyaz33]

My main point is that these GE Switches only support 1 of the 7 industry standard ways of a 3-wire circuit. Basically if you don't have a dedicated traveler from switch box #1 to switch box #2 it won't work. With the GE switch traveler (yellow) is isolated from the electrical circuit.

I am very glad there is an electrician involved in this thread as I am in hopes he can prove me wrong. I dropped over $1,000 on these switches in the last month and would really like to be wrong in my findings.