Need some advice...UPB Lights pulsing

T

tasandkrs

Member
I have over 100 HAI 35a00-CFL/LED switches installed with 120+ LED recessed lights. All of this was done during new construction. The problem I am having is that if I have a LED light set at any dimmed state, and I physical or via app control any other UPB switch in the house the light/lights that are set at the dimmed state pulses. I have unplugged the PIM, and that didn't help. I have switched from UPB MODE to HLC and that also didn't help. I also reset every switch in the house back to default and that didn't help either. Any ideas?

Thanks
Tom
 
This is typical with dimmed LEDs because they are solid state electronic devices, not a heated filament or a "plasma".
 
At dimmed levels the waveform has the peaks removed to a lower voltage level by the triac, it looks more like a trapezoidal wave than a sine wave.
The UPB signals are altering the waveform with little spikes of voltage for communication which is altering the voltage to the LED enough to momentarily change the brightness.
 
Desert_AIP said:
This is typical with dimmed LEDs because they are solid state electronic devices, not a heated filament or a "plasma".
 
At dimmed levels the waveform has the peaks removed to a lower voltage level by the triac, it looks more like a trapezoidal wave than a sine wave.
The UPB signals are altering the waveform with little spikes of voltage for communication which is altering the voltage to the LED enough to momentarily change the brightness.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the help!  Is there any solution to eliminate this from happening?
 
Tom
 
Not to sound condescending, but do the LED lights you installed specifically state they are dimmable?  Do you have the same model installed in all locations in your house?
 
How many LED assemblies are on each switch?
I found the specifications sheet for the assemblies you linked to and a few of the tested dimmers showed two where the minimum for proper operation.
I did not see any mention of Inrush Current calculations that sometimes comes into play when you add up wattages on a dimmer for Dimmable LED Bulbs.
 
gatchel said:
Maybe try and pick up a couple of the Cree 6" retrofit modules and compare the two.
Click to expand...
I have approximately 120 recessed lights, so even if that would fix it, the cost to replace each them would be to high to consider.
 
BLH said:
How many LED assemblies are on each switch?
I found the specifications sheet for the assemblies you linked to and a few of the tested dimmers showed two where the minimum for proper operation.
I did not see any mention of Inrush Current calculations that sometimes comes into play when you add up wattages on a dimmer for Dimmable LED Bulbs.
Click to expand...
I have a few switches with just one light, some with as many as 9. They all behave the same.
 
tasandkrs said:
I have approximately 120 recessed lights, so even if that would fix it, the cost to replace each them would be to high to consider.
Click to expand...
You're missing the point. Try a different lamp as a troubleshooting measure to see if the lamps are the issue or the switches are the problem. Either way you are going to spend some more cash to fix the problem or you'll just have to settle with it. Keep the receipt and return them in new condition if they don't work or give you any positive results.


FWIW, I have had and tested just about every LED light produced and seen by any big box store and many that are only sold through local supply houses in the PA area. I have never heard of Noralighting. I have piles of crappy LED bulbs that I wouldn't give to my worst enemy, not to mention how many CFL's that have been ripped out and replaced by LED's that actually work and dim on my dimmer switches.

Also, as mentioned by others here and in several other LED threads, you are supposed to calculate the LED bulbs wattage as a normal incandescent bulb, so 9 per switch is getting close to pushing it for most of the dimmers that have been spoken about on these forums, unless you have some high wattage dimmers. Just be aware of this.

Just trying to help you get to the next step....

Edit:

One more thing: Here is the spec sheet for your lights, I don't see any UPB dimmers on there. Not that they wouldn't work but they haven't been tested as compatible.

http://www.noralighting.com/uploads/specs/NLEDC-661_spec.pdf
 
Not to completely hijack... but Gatchel if you had to pick a particular brand as your favorite, what would it be?  I'm looking to replace some CFL with LED soon.
 
gatchel said:
You're missing the point. Try a different lamp as a troubleshooting measure to see if the lamps are the issue or the switches are the problem. Either way you are going to spend some more cash to fix the problem or you'll just have to settle with it. Keep the receipt and return them in new condition if they don't work or give you any positive results.FWIW, I have had and tested just about every LED light produced and seen by any big box store and many that are only sold through local supply houses in the PA area. I have never heard of Noralighting. I have piles of crappy LED bulbs that I wouldn't give to my worst enemy, not to mention how many CFL's that have been ripped out and replaced by LED's that actually work and dim on my dimmer switches.Also, as mentioned by others here and in several other LED threads, you are supposed to calculate the LED bulbs wattage as a normal incandescent bulb, so 9 per switch is getting close to pushing it for most of the dimmers that have been spoken about on these forums, unless you have some high wattage dimmers. Just be aware of this.Just trying to help you get to the next step....Edit:One more thing: Here is the spec sheet for your lights, I don't see any UPB dimmers on there. Not that they wouldn't work but they haven't been tested as compatible.http://www.noralighting.com/uploads/specs/NLEDC-661_spec.pdf
Click to expand...
Sorry...I get it. I really appreciate the help.

The NORA recessed lights use CREE LED and Drivers. They are very nice quality. I did order a Simply Automated switch to see if I get the same results. If I do, then I will try switching out a few LEDs.
 
Good. You have to start somewhere and just do some process of elimination. Unfortunately that means spending money. If this HA crap was easy, everyone would have it and be able to do it....
 
I wonder if you can get a small reactor to wire into the light, or if it would create too much draw for the switches. They don't add much, but they make a bit of heat. Probably negligible on an LED draw. But they smooth out the voltage. So if you install in each light, they should allow switches to communicate, but not let spikes get to lights.

I wonder of they even make such a product on the scale required
 
N49atv said:
I wonder if you can get a small reactor to wire into the light, or if it would create too much draw for the switches. They don't add much, but they make a bit of heat. Probably negligible on an LED draw. But they smooth out the voltage. So if you install in each light, they should allow switches to communicate, but not let spikes get to lights.
I wonder of they even make such a product on the scale required
Click to expand...
Interesting...
 
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