Need to replace batteries M1g- Largest possible size?

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newalarm

Active Member
Does anyone know offhand was is the largest possible size batteries that will fit inside an Elk-SWB28 case (The minimum rough opening is 14.25” wide, 28.25” high, 4.5” deep). Case contains M1g and ELK-P212S.

I currently have an elk 1280 and 12120 in there (8Ah and 12Ah). The 8Ah is completely dead and came with the alarm panel. The 12Ah battery is connected to a ELK-P212S. At a minimum I would like to beef that one up. If i remember right, the 12120 was the biggest battery that would work with the smaller connectors.
 
Years ago switched over to using Powersonic for my HAI Omni Pro stuff (2 cans).  Been a happy camper so far.
 
I would contact Elk about the maximum recommended battery capacity. I'm thinking that the charge rate of the battery charger on the M1 panel would be the restricting factor.
 
Mike.
 
The charging circuit charges that battery at a fixed rate.  So installing a larger battery means it will take longer to recharge from a deep discharge state.  But the M1 won't know the difference.
 
@ral thanks. That helps. I will measure exactly how much space i have in there when i get home. I vaguely remember that anything bigger than the 12120 would be an issue. Though i don't remember if it was the tabs, or the size.
 
I guess I am also limited by the max battery that both the M1G and the P212s can take.
 
Just looked up both. M1G is limited to a 18Ah battery and the p212s to a 12Ah battery.
 
If I were to put an 18Ah battery (elk-12180 for example) on the M1G, how do you deal with wiring? The 18Ah has B1-M5 bolts and nuts. I realize that i can get an adapter, but the wiring coming off the M1G is pretty fine for such a big battery. I would imagine you would have to increase the wire size?
 
Keep in mind that you want the p212's battery to outlast the m1's battery in an outage. If the p212s dies first the panel has a bit of a fit over all of those devices disappearing.
 
Mike.
 
newalarm said:
That is a little difficult to plan. I guess you can move some devices over?
Click to expand...
Yes you can balance the load against the battery's capacity and err on the side of safety. If you don't want to move things around then just settle for a little smaller battery on the panel to ensure that it doesn't outlast the p212s. Life is full of compromise.
 
Mike.
 
newalarm said:
.I guess I am also limited by the max battery that both the M1G and the P212s can take.
 
Just looked up both. M1G is limited to a 18Ah battery and the p212s to a 12Ah battery.
Click to expand...
 
Elk provides a spec on the capacity of the battery that they say is supported, but this seems to have more to do with the amount of time it takes to charge the battery than anything else.  I've spoken with the folks at Elk, and they told me that there shouldn't be a problem with a larger battery.
 
With an 18Ah battery, the M1 can recharge the battery in about 24 hours, which is usually acceptable.  As you increase the battery capacity, it will take longer the larger you go - probably over a day for a 20Ah battery.  Based on the frequency and length of your power outages, you can decide how long you're willing to allow for the battery to recharge.  But if it takes more than a day to recharge, and you have a second power outage within that time, your system may shut down. 
 
One other thing you can do to place more battery capacity in your SWB28 enclosure is to use two batteries. Is something like a PS12180 won't fit because it is too tall, a pair of PS1290s wired in parallel will get you the same capacity and will fit side by side.   You'll want to use a pair of batteries that were purchased at the same time, so that they are reasonably well matched in terms of age and capacity.
 
 
newalarm said:
If I were to put an 18Ah battery (elk-12180 for example) on the M1G, how do you deal with wiring? The 18Ah has B1-M5 bolts and nuts. I realize that i can get an adapter, but the wiring coming off the M1G is pretty fine for such a big battery. I would imagine you would have to increase the wire size?
Click to expand...
 
Although the larger battery has more capacity in terms of Amp-hours, that doesn't change the amount of current that the system draws from the battery.  It will draw at a few amps at most, so no change in the wire gauge is needed.
 
RAL said:
Elk provides a spec on the capacity of the battery that they say is supported, but this seems to have more to do with the amount of time it takes to charge the battery than anything else.  I've spoken with the folks at Elk, and they told me that there shouldn't be a problem with a larger battery.
 
With an 18Ah battery, the M1 can recharge the battery in about 24 hours, which is usually acceptable.  As you increase the battery capacity, it will take longer the larger you go - probably over a day for a 20Ah battery.  Based on the frequency and length of your power outages, you can decide how long you're willing to allow for the battery to recharge.  But if it takes more than a day to recharge, and you have a second power outage within that time, your system may shut down. 
 
One other thing you can do to place more battery capacity in your SWB28 enclosure is to use two batteries. Is something like a PS12180 won't fit because it is too tall, a pair of PS1290s wired in parallel will get you the same capacity and will fit side by side.   You'll want to use a pair of batteries that were purchased at the same time, so that they are reasonably well matched in terms of age and capacity.
 
 
 
Although the larger battery has more capacity in terms of Amp-hours, that doesn't change the amount of current that the system draws from the battery.  It will draw at a few amps at most, so no change in the wire gauge is needed.
Click to expand...
My fear would be that the automatic battery check function wouldn't work reliably. Any panel periodically puts a load on a battery to verify that the battery isn't warn out to the point where the battery must be replaced. This triggers the "replace battery" function. If it was designed to work with an 8AH battery and you have a 100AH battery, would it work? Don't know. If ELK says a XAH to YAH battery should be used, I would follow that.
 
ano said:
My fear would be that the automatic battery check function wouldn't work reliably. Any panel periodically puts a load on a battery to verify that the battery isn't warn out to the point where the battery must be replaced. This triggers the "replace battery" function. If it was designed to work with an 8AH battery and you have a 100AH battery, would it work? Don't know. If ELK says a XAH to YAH battery should be used, I would follow that.
Click to expand...
 
@ano, my batteries are completely fried. I load tested them both, one failed miserably and the other was at 10v. I never had any 'replace battery' warning. Is this something that needs to be set up? I used an auto battery load tester; I assume there should be no issue with that test?
 
I should probably start by measuring the space i have for batteries in my case :blink: I had one sitting on top of the other before with the little 8Ah on top.
 
newalarm said:
@ano, my batteries are completely fried. I load tested them both, one failed miserably and the other was at 10v. I never had any 'replace battery' warning. Is this something that needs to be set up? I used an auto battery load tester; I assume there should be no issue with that test?
Click to expand...
 
The M1's load test occurs automatically, every 24 hours.  
 
A car battery load tester isn't the best tool to use on the Elk batteries.  The automotive testers usually assume a battery with much higher capacity is being tested (e.g. 100s of Amp-Hours), and will probably give an indication of a bad battery long before the M1's test would.
 
Does anyone have enough experience with these batteries to recommend a brand for best life. I have a 12ah on my panel and two 8ah on the backup supply that I'll be replacing before too long.
 
Mike.
 
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