nest vs ecobee or other for HA integration?

[pvrfan]

We seem to be dismissive of the other features of a smart thermostat over a basic programmable tstat.  
 
Remember all those VCRs perpetually blinking "12:00"?  A lot of people don't want to invest the time and thought to deal with mundane stuff--especially when having to fight through a crappy interface.  Nest and Ecobee both offer a superior interface that makes it much easier to actually achieve some energy savings without as much hassle.  Back in the day, my programmable thermostat worked very well but I knew that if I lost the book, I would never be able to program it again.
 
Remote access is also a nice win from time to time.  For example, coming back from a long weekend, I can resume the normal schedule when I'm a few hours from home so it is comfortable when we walk in the door.  
 
Another thing I like about Ecobee is the heating, cooling and weather data it captures.  I am a numbers guy--seeing the hour-by-hour system run times versus temperature made me even more conscious of the energy cost.  Showing the graphs to my wife and kids helped them see that wasn't just dad being a cranky-pants!
 
Craig

 

[pete_c]

Yeah here a bean counter but did always keep metrics away from my children. 
 
I had a hard enough time explaining stuff out of the realm of the house.  (IE: utility costs and the such).
 
 
 
In the 80's the house had a voice that was used with the security panel.  It would talk when an exit door was left open.  Like the sliding glass door to the back yard.
 
I told my children that the voice watched over the house and not much else.  They gave the voice a name calling it "Diamond".

 

[BobS0327]

Here's a link to a interesting CePro article addressing the future of the Smart Home. https://www.cepro.com/article/home_automation_report_has_the_diy_smart_home_bubble_burst
 
John Freland, CEO of Argus Insights, the author of the article is quoted....

“For a long time smart home has either been the domain of the [DIY] enthusiasts or the folks with high income who can afford to have someone else come in and do it for them,” says Feland. “In order for it to move to the mainstream [consumer] it has to get to the point where people can do it for themselves, and it makes sense enough that they want to.”

 
My interpretation of the article is that the mainstream market is where the money is to be made.  A lot of companies such as Lowe's etc have tried unsuccessfully to crack this market.  They just don't understand the mainstream consumer.  These guys have to customize their product offering to meet the specific needs of the consumer.  They have to make their products more "user friendly" almost to the point of being idiot proof.  And they have to make the products fully integrateable.  That is, product A from vendor z has to be fully compatible with product b from vendor y.  IMHO, the company that is able to successfully address these mainstream consumer issues will probably be the next Microsoft of the Smart Home industry.
 
What we currently have is DIYers  putting together piecemeal HA systems which require a lot of tweaking to maintain your system.  Thus, if you take the plunge in HA whether you choose a Nest or Ecobee thermostat, you must be flexible, adaptable in order to get your total HA system fully functional.  IOW, total uniform integration at the DIY is almost totally nonexistent.
 

“The promise of the smart home is tremendous,” says Feland, and the ability to control devices with apps and set up simple scenes exists now in DIY products. However, “no one has done that part of how to integrate this piece with that piece in a way that makes sense,” he says.

 
The high end market is essentially a "dog eat dog" market with all the major players such as C4, Crestron etc. competing for the installations for users who have a lot of discretionary income.
 
Finally, for the smart home industry to really take off, someone has to create a comprehensive product line that addresses all the issues of the mainstream consumer which should become the next  smart home "killer app". 
 

 

[ano]

So NEST revenue is close to a $1B per year now. I don't know how many thermostats this is, but its a LOT.  So if you say people aren't adopting "home automation" its not true.  Just maybe not the kind we all hoped for.
 
Going forward, your choice of thermostat might not fully be your choice. Utilities are working hard to have some control over your thermostat. You can say no, but it will cost you.
Its happening in:
Phoenix  https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2017/09/15/aps-proposes-free-thermostats-exchange-control-your-ac-energy/664511001/
Tucson http://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-electric-floats-pilot-program-to-control-your-thermostat/article_1a723010-919a-581b-af2a-de203f915801.html
Austin https://savings.austinenergy.com/rebates/residential/offerings/cooling-and-heating/pp-thermostat/
 
Actually, just name your city, and its happening.
 
Everyone has an opinion what they want to happen, or what they think will happen, and we all appreciate hearing those opinions, but at the same time, don't ignore what actually IS happening.
 
Full-on "home automation" is simply too expensive, too technical, and too time consuming for the average person.  It will never catch-on, but the NEST is an example of home automation that IS occurring today.  RING doorbells is another example, and their sales are in the hundreds of millions of dollars as well.  Richard Branson is an investor. 
 

Finally, for the smart home industry to really take off, someone has to create a comprehensive product line that addresses all the issues of the mainstream consumer which should become the next  smart home "killer app".

I'm not sure I would agree that the "smart home industry" hasn't taken off.  It just may not have taken-off in the way that life-long smart home people expected.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Nest has been doing not that great. You can find reams of articles about how it is under-performing and has had all kinds of employee relations problems and so forth. Google paid $3.2B for it, and in terms actual profit made by Nest (which is a fraction of the gross revenues), we may all be dead before they even get that back, much less make any significant ROI. And who knows how much they've sunk into it since then.
 
The same is true for the other big companies getting into this area more or less. It's not a big profit for them, and many probably losing money, because they are all trying to take over the space against other big competitors, and none of them are likely to actually do that. It'll probably stay fragmented to one degree or another. Some of them will fall out over time I'm sure or be spun off to fall on their own swords or be sold off.
 
The professional market is where all of the real money is made now and likely into the future for some time. It's because the professional market actually has a well proven revenue model, whereas the IoTs world doesn't. Obviously recent changes have started to eat away at the bottom end of the professional market, but it's still where the money is. The big companies targeting the low end are probably looking at making their money on data collection and recurring monthly charges, which requires large numbers which requires winning the majority of the market. I doubt any of them assume they will make most of their money on the actual hardware because it will become ever more commodity in nature.
 
So it's in the mass market market where the dogs are eating the dogs, not the professional market. I mean the professional market had room for an entire new large player to enter it, C4, from scratch, i.e. not paid for by a huge company willing to lose money. Nothing like that has happened in the IoTs world, because there's not remotely that kind of money available there. Everything happening there is either very small companies making little doo-dads, or very large companies sinking money into an attempt to become the leader so that they can make money indirectly.

 

[a0128958]

I use Network Thermostat ( http://www.networkthermostat.com ) thermostats for my residence and business customers.  Ethernet or Wi-Fi connectivity.  Weather data comes to each tstat from the Internet.  All settings are programmable and customizable.
 
I have my (four) Network Thermostat tstats at my home integrated with my HAI OP2.  I use the OP2 to track room occupancy in various manners, and then tstat adjustment is done based on occupancy and time of day.  Interface between OP2 and the tstats is hardwire.  Room occupancy determination is via PIRs connected to OP2 and then algorithms programmed into OP2 to control tstat.
 
These tstats are internet appliances (web servers internal to each tstat) such that any browser on a PC, MAC, SmartPhone or tablet (inside or outside the LAN) can 'talk' to the tstats.  No cloud service required.  16 email and/or text alerts.  PC s/w to manage one, many at one location, and many locations is included.  7 day and event scheduling.  Gas, electric/oil (2H/2C), and heat pump (3H/2C) all supported.  RH sensing / control is an option at ordering time.  Accommodates remote sensors.  
 
Since these are commercial quality tstats, they're rock solid, including the network capabilities.  No port forwarding required unless you want to control/view tstats outside of LAN. 
 
Only drawback is cost - they're not aimed at the residential environment.
 
Best regards,
 
Bill