Network HD PVR...

[drvnbysound]

Is there any particular reason that Hauppauge hasn't developed a networked version of the HD-PVR? I recently realized that this is really the only thing that is keeping me from virtualizing my SageTV system. Just curious if others would also see benefit to a networked HD recorder as opposed to the USB versions that are currently offered.

 

[dgage]

The SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime can be networked. Will that not work with Sage?

David

 

[broconne]

You can virtualize sage with the hd-pvr. Esxi supports usb passthru starting at version 4.1. I had success with that solution.

 

[drvnbysound]

The SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime can be networked. Will that not work with Sage?

David

I have HDHR's, but those don't work on encrypted channels such as Discovery, TLC, etc...

 

[drvnbysound]

You can virtualize sage with the hd-pvr. Esxi supports usb passthru starting at version 4.1. I had success with that solution.

I recently downloaded ESXi, but haven't used it yet. My concern with the USB passthrough, started when I was trying to do it with VMware Server... and I had to manually select the device(s) I wanted to share to the VMs. This is fine for initial setup, my issue is if I have to do it on a restart (e.g. power is out for 2 hours, my UPS doesn't last that long, and the host is shutdown). I'm sure that I can set the VM to automatically turn on, but not sure about the USB functionality...

One reason for wanting to virtualize is that I'm starting to think about splurging and getting outdoor IP cameras (opposed to analog models), in which case I could also virtualize the CCTV-DVR and likely run both VMs off a single host. Do you know if ESXi also supports dedicating PCI-E hardware to a VM?

Opposed to the other option, of running 2 separate machines...

 

[broconne]

VMWare Server and ESXi are two really different animals. ESXi is an enterprise grade level 0 hypervisor. From my memory you set the USB device ID of the item you want to pass through and it happens everytime that VM is started. It would not be something you selected everytime. You can also pass through PCI-E devices the same way. There was a bug introduced in ESXi 5.1 that causes an issue when passing through PCI devices that are built into the motherboard - I had to roll back to 5.0 because of it.

There are positives and negatives to it being enterprise grade. It is very stable, but it also supports a limited amount of hardware. Neither of the NICs built into my motherboard were supported. I had to go by an intel PCI-E card to get networking to work. However, it wasn't a total loss as I just use the PCI passthrough to pass both the onboard ports to my pfSense firewall.

I recently downloaded ESXi, but haven't used it yet. My concern with the USB passthrough, started when I was trying to do it with VMware Server... and I had to manually select the device(s) I wanted to share to the VMs. This is fine for initial setup, my issue is if I have to do it on a restart (e.g. power is out for 2 hours, my UPS doesn't last that long, and the host is shutdown). I'm sure that I can set the VM to automatically turn on, but not sure about the USB functionality...

One reason for wanting to virtualize is that I'm starting to think about splurging and getting outdoor IP cameras (opposed to analog models), in which case I could also virtualize the CCTV-DVR and likely run both VMs off a single host. Do you know if ESXi also supports dedicating PCI-E hardware to a VM?

Opposed to the other option, of running 2 separate machines...

 

[drvnbysound]

VMWare Server and ESXi are two really different animals. ESXi is an enterprise grade level 0 hypervisor. From my memory you set the USB device ID of the item you want to pass through and it happens everytime that VM is started. It would not be something you selected everytime. You can also pass through PCI-E devices the same way. There was a bug introduced in ESXi 5.1 that causes an issue when passing through PCI devices that are built into the motherboard - I had to roll back to 5.0 because of it.

There are positives and negatives to it being enterprise grade. It is very stable, but it also supports a limited amount of hardware. Neither of the NICs built into my motherboard were supported. I had to go by an intel PCI-E card to get networking to work. However, it wasn't a total loss as I just use the PCI passthrough to pass both the onboard ports to my pfSense firewall.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, we just implemented a ESXi setup at work for some pretty serious network management of off-site equipment. However, performing network management/email server functionality alone is fairly straightforward in terms of setup - particularly when everything is able to be monitored via network connection as opposed to having to interface with various hardware... thus, my request for a network based PVR

 

[dgage]

I have HDHR's, but those don't work on encrypted channels such as Discovery, TLC, etc...

Actually, the Prime takes a cable card, which when paired with your cable service, will most definitely decode those channels plus HBO, etcetera if you have them. I have two Ceton CC cards in my MCE machine and its great.

David

 

[video321]

I recently downloaded ESXi, but haven't used it yet. My concern with the USB passthrough, started when I was trying to do it with VMware Server... and I had to manually select the device(s) I wanted to share to the VMs. This is fine for initial setup, my issue is if I have to do it on a restart (e.g. power is out for 2 hours, my UPS doesn't last that long, and the host is shutdown). I'm sure that I can set the VM to automatically turn on, but not sure about the USB functionality...

You can either set the USB device ID to be connected to the desired machine in the settings file or, which always worked for me using workstation, is to select the USB device and never disconnect it via the "removable devices" setting. Any time the machine is started/resumed it will automatically connect to the USB device - as long as it isn't connected to another VM.

 

[drvnbysound]

Actually, the Prime takes a cable card, which when paired with your cable service, will most definitely decode those channels plus HBO, etcetera if you have them. I have two Ceton CC cards in my MCE machine and its great.

David

Yes, but IIRC SageTV doesn't support cable cards...

 

[drvnbysound]

You can either set the USB device ID to be connected to the desired machine in the settings file or, which always worked for me using workstation, is to select the USB device and never disconnect it via the "removable devices" setting. Any time the machine is started/resumed it will automatically connect to the USB device - as long as it isn't connected to another VM.

Thanks for the information... I'll definitely have to try this out. I think this would by far be the easiest/safest way for me to backup and maintain a SageTV install (at least for me anyway).

 

[rsw686]

One reason for wanting to virtualize is that I'm starting to think about splurging and getting outdoor IP cameras (opposed to analog models), in which case I could also virtualize the CCTV-DVR and likely run both VMs off a single host. Do you know if ESXi also supports dedicating PCI-E hardware to a VM?

I tend to stay away from locking the VM to the physical host by using USB or PCIe pass through. I have setup a Milestone XProtect VM using two Panasonic WJGXE500 analog video encoders and the H.264 codec. The Panasonic encoder is a bit pricey, but the benefits of not dealing with a PCIe card, pass through, and drivers is nice. By going this route mixing analog and IP cameras is seamless in the XProtect software.

 

[drvnbysound]

I tend to stay away from locking the VM to the physical host by using USB or PCIe pass through. I have setup a Milestone XProtect VM using two Panasonic WJGXE500 analog video encoders and the H.264 codec. The Panasonic encoder is a bit pricey, but the benefits of not dealing with a PCIe card, pass through, and drivers is nice. By going this route mixing analog and IP cameras is seamless in the XProtect software.

Understood. ...and that's fine if you have networked viewing devices throughout, but I don't, nor do I have a HTPC at each or any of my TV's. So, the only place that I'd be able to view that video is from my computer or via smart device.

 

[Spot]

Yes, but IIRC SageTV doesn't support cable cards...

Sage doesn't support it directly, but it will work for channels that are flagged "copy-freely" via a (free) 3rd-party progam (SageDCT).

With my Cable service, I can get just about everything...except HBO, SHO....I use MCE to record/watch those programs.

 

[drvnbysound]

Sage doesn't support it directly, but it will work for channels that are flagged "copy-freely" via a (free) 3rd-party progam (SageDCT).

With my Cable service, I can get just about everything...except HBO, SHO....I use MCE to record/watch those programs.

Thanks for the info... certainly something to consider. However, I have a couple of concerns...

A. Would work for me? To ensure this works, I'd obviously need to purchase the Prime and a cable card to test this out. I've never tried to purchase a cable card (Comcast), but I've heard they are greedy with them. Any idea if they require any sort of term agreement? If it didn't work for me, I'd hate to be stuck paying for it for a contracted amount of time...

B. The "what-if" event that they (Comcast) decided to change the flags. Obviously there is no way to prevent this, but the HD-PVRs would not be effected...

EDIT: After a bit of pondering, some reading, and re-reading of this post, I may go ahead and purchase a Prime tomorrow and see if I can get a CC this week (while I take some vacation and plan to work on some things around the house) Particularly since I was only planning to have (2) HDPVRs (obviously allowing 2 recordings) and would require that I rent (or purchase?) 2 cable boxes. The Prime just seems like a much easier solution...