New Home Need Ideas

[pbeaulieu]

I would like to add for other individuals planning on remodelling or building. I made it part of the contract for my 2 renovations that I would be allowed to come in and run cat5 and tv cables. Any changes you make after signing the initial contract can be very costly. I even had in the contract the potential cost of changes by agreeing up front to an hourly rate and the cost for additional materials which was builders cost plus markup. The builder I was working with was very up front. Pointed out that changes while the project is going on are expensive and he needs to make a living.

Just a few thoughts

 

[jskibo]

I've found it really depends on the builder and the market. In Delaware I was offered nothing that wasn't in their options book. I finally got them to agree to a 4 inch chase (PVC) basement to attic on the threat of walking away from the project.

In Oklahoma, they gave me anything I wanted including access to put whatever I wanted in as long as the wire was properly rated for in-wall. Hell they bent over backwards on the specs for the Home Theater.

In Michigan, again I am up against an unmoveable wall. No access, nothing unless its out of the options book (and there is nothing in the options book except a stock alarm) and absolutely no changes post final options selection. These guys do LEAN+ building process, so the place is built in 3 months, changes screw them up I guess....

The main differences between the previous experiences was the OK guy was a custom builder. He had a bunch of plan books, had you pick somthing smaller than what you wanted then modified the design to fit your needs. He came in way under budget too. Both of the others are large regional builders. They only know how to make houses in their current plan books with no mods. They likely buy all the material in bulk and changes screw that up so they are unwilling to bend. They get enough customers (even in these times) that if you don't want what they offer, they could care less.

If it were up to me I would never buy a house from one of them again, but the wife and the wallet play into the decision as well so for this project I am stuck. I will do what I can with wireless and retrofit as well as access I can get from the unfinished basement. Its not the last house we will build and we likely won't be in it more than 5 years so not too worried that its not my dream install.

 

[dpilati]

It is hard to get a lot done but you might sneak in. I did it on one house for speakers. They cut 2 of my wires but it was an easy repair.

The housing market is still is total meltdown. I'd suspect aggressive threats on walking away might get you some concessions. They don't want to slow down, but if you can sneak in after insulation for 8 hours overnight, you could get a lot of wire behind the walls. Whatever threats they have if you do that, they are unlikely to follow through on.

On a 2 story with unfinished attic and basement, you really can do a lot with a chase after the fact. Speakers in the ceiling on the first floor are the worst so I'd get those in. If you want to monitor smokes on the first floor, then get that in. Other than that, you can get into any wall. I might find a way to get HDMI in since the added length with a chase gets expensive and less reliable. Not to mention, that is thick wire that eats up a chase.

So really you don't even need 8 hours overnight - maybe 1 for 2 HDMI runs and maybe another 2 for a few pairs of speakers on the first floor. What I did was drill early - no one notices that or just assumes the electrician changed their mind. So maybe after the electricians are done, go drill holes all over the place. Then after insulation, run the wires in outside walls. Usually they drywall within days of insulation. Find out when that is and finalize wires the night before. No drywall crew is going to care.

You may know this already but there is an inspection (at least around here) for penetrations between floors to check if they have fireblock. That gets tricky as you hate to mess that up. I think for us it is done by the insulation team. Then probably inspected the next day before drywall gets the go ahead. That may make drilling holes ahead of time tougher, but at least redrilling through the foam is really quick. You can still do any horizontal holes early.

 

[znelbok]

I don't get this - if you know you want cabling done in the house, do your homework up front before you sign a contract with a builder. Know what you want and where and what possible future items you may need. This could take you a year in planning, but it has to be done otherwise you end up a creek without that paddle you so desperately need.

There is no reason that you should not be able to get access with your own subbie.

Hell, if the builder does not like it walk away - I did it for my house and I tell you what, I was very surprised at the company that I did go with. Project home builder are notorious for not letting subbies in, but the mob I went with let me organise my own electrician (my work mate which means me) which meant I had full control of the wiring (took me 6 weeks to pre-wire). Worked closely with the companies project manager on it and it was all pulled off in the end without a hitch. Communication is key in any project.

Now I don't lice in the US and so I cant fully understand what it is like there, but from what I can see, your economy is still up shit creek, so I would think that you as a consumer would have a LOT of pulling power.

Its you money, your house, not theirs - walk away and tell them to shove it up their arse and that they obviously have enough work to feed their family. It will be hard to do, but you will not be happy in the end unless you get what you want and not being happy is a bigger waste of money than being happy when its costs more.

Mick

 

[DanITman]

I've found it really depends on the builder and the market. In Delaware I was offered nothing that wasn't in their options book. I finally got them to agree to a 4 inch chase (PVC) basement to attic on the threat of walking away from the project.

In Oklahoma, they gave me anything I wanted including access to put whatever I wanted in as long as the wire was properly rated for in-wall. Hell they bent over backwards on the specs for the Home Theater.

In Michigan, again I am up against an unmoveable wall. No access, nothing unless its out of the options book (and there is nothing in the options book except a stock alarm) and absolutely no changes post final options selection. These guys do LEAN+ building process, so the place is built in 3 months, changes screw them up I guess....

The main differences between the previous experiences was the OK guy was a custom builder. He had a bunch of plan books, had you pick somthing smaller than what you wanted then modified the design to fit your needs. He came in way under budget too. Both of the others are large regional builders. They only know how to make houses in their current plan books with no mods. They likely buy all the material in bulk and changes screw that up so they are unwilling to bend. They get enough customers (even in these times) that if you don't want what they offer, they could care less.

If it were up to me I would never buy a house from one of them again, but the wife and the wallet play into the decision as well so for this project I am stuck. I will do what I can with wireless and retrofit as well as access I can get from the unfinished basement. Its not the last house we will build and we likely won't be in it more than 5 years so not too worried that its not my dream install.

I'd be interested to know who your builder is. I'm from that area but live in Kalamazoo now. I agree with the other poster....slip by when they are doing the electrical and slip him some cash

 

[jskibo]

I'd be interested to know who your builder is. I'm from that area but live in Kalamazoo now. I agree with the other poster....slip by when they are doing the electrical and slip him some cash

Allen Edwin Homes

.....and I got them to cave (sort of). See my post Here

 

[DanITman]

Allen Edwin Homes

.....and I got them to cave (sort of). See my post Here

I can see why they are not forgiving. Their homes are well thought out and go up very fast. My cousin does all the gutters for their houses and I'm sure he will end up doing yours.

Considering they built over 500 homes last year, I'm sure you were one of the lucky few that got to make some changes.

 

[pete_c]

About 7 years ago we checked out about 10 custom home builders in the area (SW of Chicago). All except for one wouldn't agree to letting me do custom low voltage wiring. We ended up starting construction after about a year of looking with said builder. Within 1 month of breaking ground the builder made a major error relating to placement of the foundation of the home. He decided that he would make it work the way he started. We ended up getting our deposit back and purchased a two year home nearby with all of the options that we were looking for.

In FL about 10 years ago the builder let me in the house on the weekends and I was able to prewire all of the low voltage.